Shabbat 82a — the Talmud in English

She said to them: What shall I do to you?,

the sorcery does not prevail over you, because you are careful concerning things that bring about the sorcery’s prevailing.

For you do not wipe yourselves with a potsherd,

with a potsherd,

and you do not kill a louse upon your garments,

you do not kill a louse upon your garments,

and you do not pull out vegetables and eat them from the bundle that the gardener tied,

you do not pull out a vegetable and eat it directly from the bundle that the gardener tied; rather, you first untie the bundle .

It is thus apparent that wiping with a potsherd is difficult for sorcery.

Rav Huna said to Rabba, his son: Why are you not frequently before Rav Hisda, whose teachings are sharpened?

He said to him: Why should I go to him,

why should I go to him?

For when I go to him, he engages me

he converses with me

in matters of the world.

For example,

he says to me: One who enters the privy should not sit forcefully,

one who enters the privy should not sit quickly and forcefully,

and should not strain excessively,

he should not exert himself too much, because

this rectum,

the rectum,

rests upon three teeth,

it is suspended upon three strips of flesh that appear like teeth. Therefore one must conduct himself cautiously,

lest the teeth of the rectum slip,

become detached,

and he come to danger,

for the rectum may come out.

He said to him,

Rav Huna to Rabba his son:

he,

Rav Hisda,

is occupied with the lives of the creatures,

with matters that concern the lives of people,

and you say

that he converses with you

about matters of the world?

All the more so—

go to him!

If a stone and a potsherd were before him

on Shabbat:

Rav Huna said: He wipes with the stone,

even though it is muktzeh,

and he does not wipe with the potsherd,

because of danger, lest the teeth of the rectum become detached.

And Rav Hisda said: He wipes with the potsherd,

for it has the status of a vessel,

and he does not wipe with the stone,

for it is muktzeh.

An objection was raised

against Rav Huna from that which was taught in a beraita:

If a stone and a potsherd were before him—

“If there were before him a pebble and a potsherd,

he wipes with the potsherd and does not wipe with the stone.

Is this a refutation of Rav Huna?

Rafram bar Pappa explained it

he answered and established it

before Rav Hisda, in accordance with Rav Huna,

to reconcile his words: the beraita is speaking

of the rims of vessels,

of the edge of the earthenware vessel, which is smooth, and there is no danger that it will detach the teeth of the rectum. Therefore it is preferable to a stone.

If a stone and grasses were before him

on Shabbat, they disagree about it,

Rav Hisda and Rav Hamnuna: One said: He wipes with the stone, and he does not wipe with grasses,

because they are moist and cut the flesh. [Rashi’s teachers explain that it is prohibited because of detaching the grasses. Rashi rejected their explanation, since no one disputes that it is prohibited to detach them. Rather, it certainly speaks of wiping while they are still attached, without detaching them].

And one said: He wipes with grasses

that are attached, and he does not detach them, for then he does not move muktzeh. He does not move them.

and he does not wipe with the stone,

because by doing so he moves muktzeh.

An objection was raised

against the one who says that he wipes with grasses, from that which was taught in a beraita:

One who wipes with something that fire

the fire

prevails over—

his lower teeth

of the rectum

fall out.

But does fire not prevail over grasses?

It is not difficult.

This

that he wipes

with

grasses

that are moist,

over which fire does not prevail.

This

that his lower teeth fall out, is

with

grasses

that are dry,

over which fire prevails.

One who needs to relieve himself but does not relieve himself,

they disagree about it,

Rav Hisda and Ravina:

One said: An evil spirit prevails over him,

for he has a bad smell in his mouth, because the refuse rots in his intestines and the smell exits through his mouth.

And one said: A spirit of filth prevails over him,

for his entire body gives off a foul smell from sweat, because the odor is absorbed into his flesh and limbs and becomes filthy sweat.

It was taught in accordance with the one who says: A spirit of filth prevails over him.

For it was taught: One who needs to relieve himself and eats is like an oven that they heated upon its ashes,

without cleaning it of the ashes.

And this is the beginning of a spirit of filth.

If he needs to relieve himself but cannot relieve himself

because the opening does not open:

Rav Hisda said: He should stand and sit, stand and sit.

Rav Hanan of Nehardea said: He should move to the sides.

He should examine himself in this corner, move to another corner, and examine himself again.

Rav Hamnuna said: He should feel with a stone in that place.

And the Rabbis say: He should divert his attention,

as will be explained.

Rav Aha, son of Rava, said to Rav Ashi: All the more so, when he diverts his attention, does he not become frightened?

He said to him,

Rav Ashi: This is what the Rabbis say:

He should divert his attention from other matters.

Rav Yirmeya of Difti said: I myself saw that Arab

Ishmaelite

who stood and sat, stood and sat, until he poured

his excrement

like a pot.

The Sages taught: One who enters a fixed meal,

and it is disgraceful for him to rise in the middle of the meal if he needs to relieve himself—

should walk ten times, four cubits each time

each time, and between each time he should sit and examine himself, for walking is beneficial for the evacuation of the orifices.

And some say: Four times, ten cubits each time,

for this is preferable, since he walks farther each time,

and he relieves himself, and

then he

enters

the meal

and sits in his place.

Mishna:

A potsherd—

its measure for carrying it out is

enough to place between one beam and its fellow [

when pillars or beams are arranging one upon another, a space is formed between them, and a potsherd is placed there so that the upper one will not bend; and this is the measure of the potsherd for which one is liable for carrying it out on Shabbat],

the words of Rabbi Yehuda.

Rabbi Meir says: Enough to rake fire with it,

to transfer coals with it from place to place.

Rabbi Yosei says: Enough to contain a quarter

of water.

Rabbi Meir said: Although there is no proof for the matter,

that the potsherd is used for raking a coal from the fire—

there is an indication of the matter

in the prophecy of the prophet Isaiah.

As it is said in the words of the prophecy of the prophet Isaiah to the people of Israel, because they rejected the true prophecy and trusted in oppression and crooked things [chapter 30, verses 13–14]: "

Therefore this iniquity shall be to you like a breach [of a wall] falling, bulging out [the breach] in a lofty wall, whose breaking will suddenly, in an instant, come.

And its breaking shall be like the breaking of a potter’s vessel, [and the breaking shall be into fragments so small, until]

there shall not be found in its fragments [

among the fragments of the potsherds, even]

one potsherd [

one that is fit]

to rake [

a coal with it]

of burning fire.

And [so there shall not be found among the fragments of the potsherds a potsherd that is fit] to scoop [to draw with it] water from a pit [from a hollow of water]".

Rabbi Yosei said to him:

But is

that proof

for your words?

On the contrary, in the latter part of the verse it is written that there shall not be found a potsherd that is fit

“to scoop [

to draw with it]

water from a pit [

from a hollow of water]".

It is thus apparent that the potsherd is also used to contain water, and this is its measure, to be liable for carrying it out on Shabbat at the measure fit to contain a quarter of water.

Gemara:

And we raise an objection: It is

reasonable,

it is apparent from the language of Rabbi Yosei and Rabbi Meir in the Mishna that

Rabbi Yosei’s measure—

is greater,

than Rabbi Meir’s measure.

For Rabbi Meir said, “to rake a coal with it,” without specifying any measure in it. And it implies even if it is fit to rake one coal with it. And this is a smaller measure than Rabbi Yosei’s measure, who said, “enough to contain a quarter of water.”

And it is difficult, for

from Scripture,

from the words of the verse in Isaiah brought in the Mishna, it appears that

Rabbi Meir’s measure

of a potsherd sufficient to rake a coal

is greater,

than Rabbi Yosei’s measure sufficient to contain a quarter of water.

And the proof is:

if it enters your mind that Rabbi Yosei’s measure is greater,

it is difficult:

And does

the prophet first curse them

the prophet Isaiah curse them first

with a small vessel,

so that no potsherd should remain for them even of the size required for raking fire,

and then curse them

and afterward curse them again

with a large vessel,

so that no larger potsherd should remain for them that is fit to contain a quarter of water?

And is it the way of those who curse to curse first with a large matter and afterward with a small matter!?

Rather, certainly the measure of a potsherd fit to contain water is less than that fit for raking fire.

And it is difficult, for from the words of the Mishna the opposite is implied.

Abaye said:

It is not difficult.

The Mishna too,

in which Rabbi Meir says “to rake fire,” means

to rake the fire—

of a large bonfire

of fire! And with a large bonfire, even in order to remove a small coal from it, one must use a large potsherd, so that he will not be burned. And in any event this measure is greater than containing water, as is implied by the verse.

We learned in the Mishna:

Rabbi Yosei says: From there there is proof.

And we inquire about it:

Did Rabbi Yosei say well to Rabbi Meir?

And we answer:

And Rabbi Meir

holds:

The verse states “it is not necessary.”

The verse.

It is not necessary to state that which is significant to people,

a potsherd fit for raking fire,

that it should not be found for them,

so that it should not be available for them to use.

Rather, even that which is not significant to people,

such as a potsherd for containing water, also

should not be found for them.

We shall return to you, chapter “One who carries out wine.”

Mishna:

Rabbi Akiva said: From where is it derived that idolatry conveys impurity through carrying,

so that one who carries it becomes impure even if he did not touch it,

like a menstruous woman,

who conveys impurity to the person carrying her through the impurity of carrying?

As it is stated,

by the prophet Isaiah [30:22], that idolatry has the laws of impurity of a menstruous woman: “

And you shall defile the overlay of your graven images of silver, and the plating of your molten images of gold.

You shall cast them away —

like a menstruous woman

[a menstruous woman].

Go out —

you shall say to it.”

And we expound:

Just as a menstruous woman conveys impurity through carrying

to the person carrying her,

so too, idolatry conveys impurity through carrying,

to the person carrying it through the impurity of carrying.

Gemara:

We learned there

in tractate Avodah Zarah:

One whose wall was adjacent to idolatry,

so that that wall was also shared with the house of idolatry,

and it fell —

it is forbidden

for him

to rebuild it,

for by doing so he benefits the idolatry.

What shall he do?

He withdraws inward

within the area

of his own four cubits, and builds

the wall there.