Shabbat 115b — the Talmud in English

If you say

the dispute of the tannaim in the beraita in which they disagreed,

the first tanna and Rabbi Yosei,

and Rav Huna holds that Rav Ḥisda follows the method of the first tanna, who says that they are rescued, while Rav Huna himself follows Rabbi Yosei, who says that they are not rescued.

One must ask: From where does Rav Huna know that the dispute between the first tanna and Rabbi Yosei concerns the one who says that they were not given to be read from?

And perhaps in this matter

itself

they disagree, the first tanna and Rabbi Yosei, regarding whether it is permitted to read from them, and this is their dispute:

whether it is permitted to read from them. Their dispute would then be as follows:

One—

the first tanna—

holds: They were given to be read from,

and it is only for this reason that they are rescued.

And the other—

Rabbi Yosei—

holds: They were not given to be read from,

and therefore they are not rescued.

But according to the one who says that they were not given to be read from, the first tanna and Rabbi Yosei did not disagree, and both hold that according to his view they are not rescued, in accordance with Rav Huna.

If so, Rav Huna has no basis for explaining that Rav Ḥisda, who says that they are rescued, holds like the first tanna. For it is obvious that he does not follow Rabbi Yosei, and from the first tanna there is no proof that he holds like Rav Ḥisda.

Rather,

the dispute between the tannaim that Rav Huna referred to means

Rabbi Yosei,

who says that they are not rescued, and necessarily holds like Rav Huna,

and the tanna of Gifta [on the previous page], who explicitly says that even according to the one who says that they were not given to be read from, they are rescued.

who explicitly says that even according to the one who says that they were not given to be read, they may be rescued.

The Sages taught:

The writings of

the blessings,

in which the texts of the blessings are written, and likewise the blessings of the Eighteen Benedictions,

and amulets

in which verses of efficacy are written against illnesses or fear and the like,

even though they contain letters of the Name, and

there are written in them

matters

from

many passages of the Torah—

one does not rescue them from the fire

on Shabbat.

Rather,

if a fire broke out on Shabbat, they

are burned in their place, they and their mentions of the Divine Name .

From here they said: Those who write blessings—

are like those who burn

the Torah!

For if a fire breaks out on Shabbat, they will not be able to rescue them, and therefore one should not write them .

There was an incident involving one who was writing

blessings

in

a city

of Sidon.

They came and informed Rabbi Yishmael.

And Rabbi Yishmael went to examine him

to see whether the matter was indeed true.

When he was ascending

Rabbi Yishmael to him

on a ladder—

he sensed him.

He took

that man

a volume,

a collection of writings

of blessings, and sank it in a cup of water, so that Rabbi Yishmael would not notice them.

so that Rabbi Yishmael would not notice them.

And in these words Rabbi Yishmael said to him: Greater

is

is the punishment

that comes upon you for the act

last,

that you sank the blessings in water,

than

the punishment for the act

first,

for writing them .

The Exilarch asked Rabbah bar Rav Huna:

Sacred writings that were not written with ink in accordance with the halakha, but

were written with sam, with red paint, with gum, or with copper sulfate,

which are not fit for writing sacred writings, but they were written

in the holy language—

whether

one rescues them from the fire, or one does not rescue them?

This question is subject to doubt according to everyone:

Let it be asked,

it is subject to doubt

according to the one who says that one rescues

sacred writings written in every language. And likewise

let it be asked,

it is also subject to doubt

according to the one who says that one does not rescue.

Let it be asked according to the one who says that one does not rescue:

for perhaps

these words

that one does not rescue apply specifically

where they were written in Aramaic translation or in every language.

But here, since they were written in the holy language—

one rescues.

Or perhaps, even according to the one who says that one rescues

translation and every language,

these words—

where they were written in ink, for

the ink writing

endures,

remaining in existence for a long time.

But here,

writing written with sam and red paint,

since it does not endure

for a long time like ink, perhaps

not

do they rescue them?

He said to him

Rabbah bar Rav Huna:

They do not rescue.

The Exilarch said to him:

But Rav Hamnuna was a tanna,

he taught a beraita saying that

one rescues

writings of this kind!?

He said to him: If it was taught,

it was taught.

What—

where

was it taught

this law?

Rav Ashi said: As it was taught in a beraita: There is no

difference

between

the laws of writing

books and

writing

a scroll, except

for this difference:

books are written in every language, but

a

a scroll

is not fit for reading

until it is written in Assyrian script,

on parchment and in ink.

It follows that only a scroll must be written specifically in ink, but other books may also be written with sam and red paint; if so, they are entirely sacred, and therefore one rescues them from the fire .

Rav Huna bar Ḥaluv asked Rav Naḥman:

A Torah scroll

whose majority of letters had been erased, or which had worn out and its majority of letters were no longer recognizable, to the point

that it does not contain

throughout

enough to gather

from it [that is, there do not remain in it] even

eighty-five letters,

which is the measure for a Torah scroll to retain its sanctity ,

such as

the total number of letters in

the passage “And it was when the Ark traveled”, which is considered a book in itself, as will be explained below—

which is considered a book in its own right, as will be explained below—

Whether

one rescues it from the fire, or one does not rescue it?

He said to him

Rav Naḥman:

Then let the passage “And it was when the Ark traveled” itself be asked of you,

if it was written on its own and one letter was missing from it, what is the law regarding rescuing it?

Rav Huna bar Haluva said to him:

where the section “And it was when the Ark set out” is missing—

it is not a question for me.

Since there are mentions

of the Name of H', therefore

even though it does not contain eighty-five letters—

they rescue

it from the fire because of the mentions remaining in it .

When it is a question for me: a Torah scroll in which there are not eighty-five letters to gather

—and it contains no mentions at all—

what?

He said to him

Rav Nahman:

They do not rescue.

He objected

to Rav Nahman from a beraita in which we learned:

A translation

of the Torah [it is explained below that this is “Yegar Sahaduta”]

that they wrote

in the language of

Scripture

and not in the language of translation.

And

likewise the language of

Scripture

in the Torah

that they wrote in translation.

And

likewise if he

wrote

in the script of

Hebrew

of old, and not in the Assyrian script in which Torah scrolls are written—

they rescue it from the fire.

And there is no need to say: a translation in Ezra, in Daniel, and in the Torah,

which they wrote properly in the language of translation, that they rescue from the fire.

And the Gemara infers:

A translation in the Torah—

what is that?

[Genesis 31]

“Yegar Sahaduta”.

And the Gemara understood that he wrote only the two words “Yegar Sahaduta,” and nevertheless they rescue it from the fire,

even though it does not contain eighty-five letters!

And it is explicit in the beraita that they rescue fewer than eighty-five letters?

And we answer:

when that was taught—

that it contains additional letters, and these two words are fit

to complete

the count of eighty-five letters.

They raised a question: these eighty-five letters—

whether they need to be

gathered

in one place,

or

whether they can be

scattered?

Rav Huna said:

specifically,

gathered.

Rav Hisda said: Even scattered.

He objected

to Rav Huna from a beraita in which we learned:

A Torah scroll that has become worn out—if it contains eighty-five letters to gather, such as the section “And it was when the Ark set out”—

they rescue it, but if not—

they do not rescue it.

And the expression “to gather” teaches that the subject is scattered letters.

A refutation of Rav Huna!

He explained it

as an answer

Rav Hisda, according

to his view

of Rav Huna,

that the intention of the beraita is

with

the gathering

of

complete words, even when the words are scattered. Whereas the disagreement between Rav Huna and Rav Hisda concerns only the gathering of scattered letters.

Our Rabbis taught:

[Numbers 10]

“And it was when the Ark set out, and Moses said.”

For this section, the Almighty made signs,

resembling an inverted letter nun, one

above,

before it,

and

one

below, behind it, in order to separate it from the sections before it and after it .

after it, in order to separate it from the sections before and after it.