Menachot 7a — the Talmud in English

And we object: How is it possible to say that the tannaim held that even if he placed it in a service vessel it becomes disqualified?

And

if so, it will always become disqualified

when he returns the handful to its place

[to the vessel from which he took the handful] after he took the handful disqualifiably, consider his returning it to the vessel as placing it in a service vessel, and

it will become sanctified and disqualified

immediately, for there is no distinction between this service vessel and another service vessel ?

And we answer:

Rabbi Yohanan said: This means that service vessels sanctify only

if he placed it in them

with intent

to sanctify it; and here, since the returning to the vessel was not with intent to sanctify it, this is not considered “he took the handful and sanctified it.”

And we wonder:

Is it so?

If he placed it in the vessel

with intent

to sanctify it—

do they sanctify? But Reish Lakish asked Rabbi Yohanan: What is the law concerning service vessels—do they sanctify

disqualified offerings,

disqualified

such as when a non-priest took the handful and placed it in a service vessel: does the service vessel sanctify it and render it fit

initially to be offered? And he said to him

Rabbi Yohanan:

They do not sanctify?

And we explain: What Rabbi Yohanan said, “They do not sanctify”—

they do not sanctify

so that it should be valid and

offered,

he said;

but they do sanctify

the disqualified offerings when they are placed in the vessel

to become disqualified,

so that he can no longer return them to the vessel and take the handful again.

Rav Amram said:

Even if you say that service vessels sanctify without intent, the reason it did not become sanctified when he returned it to the vessel from which he had taken the handful is

for example, he returned it to a heaped basin

[a service vessel in which they mix a meal-offering]

that was heaped,

so that the handful he returned protruded above the sides of the vessel, and through this it did not become sanctified, for sanctification requires that it be in the airspace of the vessel.

And we wonder: If so, that it is speaking of a heaped vessel,

and when he took the handful initially, how did he take it?

For he must take it from the airspace of the vessel?

Rather,

this is the explanation:

For example, he returned it

the handful

to a level basin,

neither heaped nor deficient, so that when he initially took the handful, he took it from within the vessel.

And we wonder:

And

behold,

since he initially took a handful from it, he made a hollow

in the fine flour that was in the vessel,

and when he returns

the handful

into the interior of the vessel,

into that same hollow,

is he returning it

and if so, the vessel should sanctify it?

And we explain: Here,

when he returns it

the handful,

he places

it on the side of the vessel,

on the sides of the vessel, beside the hollow,

and

afterward

he shakes it

the vessel,

and it falls

the handful on its own

into the hollow, so that it is done

that the returning is into the hollow

as though a monkey returned it,

for the handful fell into the hollow on its own and he did not return it himself; and when he himself returned it, it was outside the sides of the vessel, and therefore the vessel did not sanctify it.

Rabbi Yirmeya said to Rabbi Zeira: Let us establish it

to explain why it did not become disqualified when he returned it to the vessel

as referring to a case where he returned it to a vessel placed on the ground,

which does not sanctify?

And the Gemara answers:

Learn from this that they take handfuls from a vessel

that is on the ground,

and likewise they sanctify the handful in a vessel that is on the ground.

Rabbi Zeira said to Rabbi Yirmeya:

In your doubt,

you have touched

the matter about which our colleagues were uncertain,

for Avimi taught the tractate of meal-offerings in the presence of

—with—

Rav Hisda.

And we wonder:

And did Avimi teach in the presence of Rav Hisda? But Rav Hisda said: “Good blows

—good beatings—

I have absorbed

—I received—

from Avimi

when I studied Torah with him—

concerning this matter:

the valuation of orphans’ property, which they announce in order to sell it at a high price; and in one beraita it is explained that they announce for thirty days, while in another beraita it says sixty days. Avimi answered:

If he comes to announce on consecutive days,

announcing on all the days of the week, he announces for

thirty days,

but if he announces only

on Monday and Thursday, he announces for

sixty days.

And

Rav Hisda was praising the answer, and Avimi struck him for this; and it is evident from this that Rav Hisda was Avimi’s student?

And we explain:

Avimi’s tractate of meal-offerings was uprooted

[it was forgotten]

from him, and he came before Rav Hisda

his student

to recall his learning

[to remind him of his learning].

And we wonder:

Why did he not send for him

to Rav Hisda

and let him come

to him?

And we explain:

Avimi thought

that

the matter would be assisted much more in this way,

to know his learning, because through his exertion he was assured that he would succeed: “If you have labored and found, believe.”

And now the Gemara returns to Rabbi Zeira’s words concerning the vessel placed on the ground, and the Gemara relates that when Avimi was studying meal-offerings with Rav Hisda,

Rav Nahman encountered him and said to him

to Avimi:

How does one take a handful?

And a vessel was placed before them on the ground.

He said to him,

Avimi,

“From this vessel”

before us; if it were sacred, it would be possible to take a handful from it.

He said to him,

Rav Nahman,

“And does one take a handful from a vessel that is on the ground?” He said to him,

No, rather

“a priest lifts it”,

and then he takes the handful.

Rav Nahman further asked Avimi:

“How does one sanctify the handful”

[the version of the Tzofnat Pa’neah] after the taking of the handful?

He said to him,

Avimi,

“He places it”

the handful

“in this vessel”

that is on the ground, and sanctifies it.

Rav Nahman wondered:

“And does one sanctify

the handful

in a vessel that is on the ground?” He said to him,

Avimi: No, rather

“a priest lifts it.”

He said to him,

Rav Nahman:

“If so, you have required

for taking the handful

three priests

one to lift the vessel from which he takes the handful, one to lift the vessel into which he places the handful after taking it, and one to take the handful [and one priest cannot hold both vessels, or hold one and take the handful, because there is no ritual service with the left hand]?

He said to him: “Then it should require”

taking a handful even

thirteen

priests,

like

a

daily offering,

and what of it!

He challenged him:

It is explained in the Mishna below concerning piggul:

“This is the rule: Anyone who takes the handful, or places it in a vessel, carries it, or burns something whose manner is to be eaten, and so forth; whereas ‘the one who lifts’”

the vessel

it does not teach,

and it is demonstrated from this that lifting is not required?

And we explain:

The tanna took

the

services

of taking the handful

in order,

but lifting, which is not an important service [Rashi below, page 2], the tanna did not specify.

They asked Rav Sheshet: What is the law concerning taking a handful from a vessel that is on the ground?

He said to him: “Go out and see what they do inside”

—in the Sanctuary on Shabbat, when arranging the showbread. For it is explained in the Mishna below:

“Four priests enter; two have two arrangements in their hands”

—two arrangements of showbread, each of which contains six loaves—

“and two have two bowls in their hands”

of frankincense, for they placed pure frankincense on each arrangement.

“And four

priests

precede them; two

in order

to take the two arrangements

of the old bread from the table,

and two

in order

to take the two bowls

from the table,