Chullin 8b — the Talmud in English

And we answer: Rava and Rav Naḥman were speaking

of a

knife

that was new

, one that had never been used to cut anything; it had only been designated for idolatrous worship.

And we challenge this: How can you establish the case as involving a

new knife?

After all,

according to Rabbi Yishmael

and

and according to Rabbi Akiva

—who disagree concerning the status of idolatrous worship itself, whether it becomes prohibited immediately when it is made or only after it has been used for worship—a new knife is not prohibited. For knives

are objects used in idolatrous worship

, and not idolatrous worship itself; and

objects used in idolatrous worship

are, according to everyone,

not prohibited until they are used

for the purposes of idolatrous worship!?

And we answer:

Alternatively

, the case is one involving a knife

with which one chopped wood

[unclear: the source gloss explains that these were pieces of wood]

for

the purposes of

idolatrous worship

, which does not involve the prohibition against forbidden foods; it is prohibited only because it is an object used in idolatrous worship.

Alternatively,

in fact the case is one involving

an

old knife

that was used

, except that it

was heated in fire

and thereby purged of its forbidden fat.

It was stated: With regard to one who slaughters with a knife belonging to idolaters

, which they used to cut their food—

Rav said: He must peel

the place where the knife touched the slaughtering area, removing a layer from it, because forbidden fat absorbed into the knife was absorbed there.

And Rabba bar bar Ḥana said: He must rinse

the slaughtering area with water, and that is sufficient.

And the Gemara analyzes this:

Shall we say that they disagree about this: One of them

—Rabba bar bar Ḥana—

holds that the slaughtering area is cold

, and its heat is not strong enough to cause it to absorb the fat in the knife. That is why peeling is not required. Nevertheless, rinsing is required, since even when it is cold, some of the fat adheres to the walls of the slaughtering area.

And the other

—Rav—

holds that the slaughtering area is hot

and absorbs the fat from the knife into its outer layer. That is why rinsing alone is insufficient; one must peel it and remove that layer.

And we reject this:

No

, that is not what they disagree about. Rather,

everyone

holds that

the slaughtering area is hot.

The one who says “he must peel”

has stated his view well, since, as it is hot, it absorbs.

And the one who says “he must rinse”

holds that although the slaughtering area is hot,

because the windpipes and esophagi are occupied with expelling the blood, they do not absorb

from the knife. Therefore, rinsing is sufficient.

There are those who say: Everyone

, both Rav and Rabba bar bar Ḥana, holds that

the slaughtering area is cold.

The one who says “he must rinse” is well

supported by the reasoning, since, as the slaughtering area is cold, it does not absorb.

And

the one who says “he must peel”

holds that although it is cold,

because of the pressure of the knife

, which rubs forcefully against the flesh,

it absorbs

from the knife.

A knife

with which one slaughtered an animal that was found to be

non-kosher due to a fatal defect

—

Rav Aḥa and Ravina disagree about it. One says

: It is prohibited to slaughter other animals with it until it is purged

with hot water

, because the knife absorbed the fat of the non-kosher animal. If one slaughters with it again without purging it, it will release the absorbed prohibition into the slaughtering area of the kosher animal. And one says

: The knife may be rinsed even

with cold water

, and that is sufficient. He holds that the slaughtering area is cold, and therefore the knife did not absorb; rather, the prohibited substance merely adhered to its exterior, and therefore rinsing is sufficient.

And we conclude:

And the halakha is

that

even

rinsing

with cold water

is sufficient.

And if there is a piece of coarse fabric

—

to wipe it

—that is sufficient, and

even rinsing with water is not required.

And we challenge this:

But according to the one who says

that a knife used to slaughter a non-kosher animal requires purging

with hot water, what is his reason?

Is it not

because it absorbed

into itself

prohibited substance

from the fat of the non-kosher animal? If so, a knife used to slaughter

a permitted animal should also

become prohibited, since

it absorbed

at the beginning of the slaughter, before the animal became permitted through the slaughter, the fat of

a limb taken from a living animal.

And we answer:

When did it absorb

the prohibited fat?

When the slaughtering area became hot

.

When does the slaughtering area become hot

?

When

the slaughter is completed.

But

at that moment, it was already permitted.

At that point, the prohibition of a limb taken from a living animal had already been removed from it, so it follows that the knife never absorbed a prohibited substance.

Rav Yehuda said in the name of Rav: A slaughterer must have

for himself

three knives.

One knife

with which he slaughters

. He should not cut anything else with it, lest it become nicked; sometimes he might slaughter with it without inspecting it and thereby come to the prohibition of an animal that died without valid slaughter.

And

one

with which he cuts meat.

And

another with which he cuts forbidden fats

, which are prohibited for eating and which he cuts in order to sell them to non-Jews. He should not cut meat with it, since prohibited substance adheres to it.

And we challenge this: Why do we require two knives for cutting?

Let him prepare one

for both purposes,

and let him cut meat with it

first

and afterward let him cut forbidden fats with it

. Then, when he wishes to return and cut meat in another animal, he will remember to make the knife fit for use again.

And we answer: We require two knives because of

a decree lest he cut forbidden fats and afterward meat

in one animal, and forget to wipe the knife between them because he is occupied with his work. The meat would then be prohibited, because prohibited fat would become mixed into it.

And we challenge this: Just as you are concerned that he will reverse the order of cutting,

now

, when he has two knives,

also

there is reason to be concerned lest

he confuse

the knives with one another and cut the meat with the knife used for the forbidden fats!?

And we answer:

Since they required him

to prepare

two

knives,

he has a distinguishing mark

between them, by means of a sign that he makes on them.

And Rav Yehuda said in the name of Rav: A slaughterer must have two containers of water. One in which he rinses meat, and one in which he rinses forbidden fats.

And we challenge this:

Let him prepare

one

single

container

and rinse in it

the

meat first, and afterward rinse forbidden fats in it

. Why, then, does he need two containers?

And we answer:

A decree lest

he first

rinse

in the container used for

forbidden fats, and afterward

rinse

meat

in it. The water would already be saturated with fat from the forbidden fats as a result of rubbing them with his hands, and the fat would adhere to the walls of the meat. Even though the meat is cold and does not absorb the prohibited substance, the prohibition would nevertheless adhere to it.

And we challenge this:

Now,

when he has two containers,

also

there is reason to be concerned lest

he confuse

the containers and rinse the meat in the container that had already been used to rinse forbidden fats.

And we answer:

Since we required him to have two

containers,

he has

a

distinguishing mark

between them, and he will not confuse them.

Ameimar said in the name of Rav Pappa: A person should not place the flanks

—the pieces to which kidney fat is attached—

on top of the meat

, because

the fat will melt

—the fat becomes warm and flows onto the meat—

and the meat will absorb it

from the fat.

And we challenge this:

If so, when

the flanks are placed

on a flat surface

on the shelf by themselves, as is their normal placement, with the fat on top,

the fat will also melt, and the meat will absorb it

—the meat of the flanks themselves will absorb the fat adhering to them.

And we answer:

A membrane

—a layer of membrane—

separates below

the fat, between it and the meat attached to it.