Chullin 8b (ח:) — the Talmud in English

And we explain: Rava and Rav Naḥman were speaking

of a

knife

that was new,

which had never been used to cut anything, but had merely been designated for idolatrous worship.

And we challenge this: How can you establish it as referring to a knife that is

new?

But

according to Rabbi Yishmael

and

according to Rabbi Akiva

[unclear: the bracketed source text explains their dispute concerning when idolatry itself becomes prohibited], a new knife is not prohibited. For knives

are implements used for idolatrous worship,

and not idolatry itself,

and implements used for idolatrous worship

according to everyone

are not prohibited until they are used

for idolatrous worship!?

And we explain:

Alternatively,

it is speaking of a knife

with which one cut wood

[unclear: the source gloss explains that these were pieces of wood]

for

the purpose of

idolatrous worship,

which does not involve the prohibition of forbidden foods; rather, it becomes prohibited only as an implement used for idolatrous worship.

Alternatively,

actually, it is speaking

of a

knife

that was old,

but

had been heated in fire

and thereby purged of its fatty residue.

It was stated: One who slaughters with a knife belonging to gentiles

that they used to cut their food—

Rav said: He must peel

the place where the knife touched the slaughtering area, removing a layer from it, because forbidden fatty residue from the knife was absorbed there.

And Rabba bar bar Ḥana said: He must rinse

the slaughtering area with water, and that is sufficient.

And the Gemara analyzes this:

Shall we say that they disagree about this: One master,

Rabba bar bar Ḥana,

holds that the slaughtering area is cold,

and its heat is not strong enough to cause the fatty residue in the knife to be absorbed into it; that is why peeling is not required. But rinsing is required, since even when cold, some of the fatty residue adheres to the walls of the slaughtering area.

And the other,

Rav,

holds that the slaughtering area is hot,

and absorbs some of the knife’s fatty residue into its outer layer. Therefore, rinsing alone is insufficient; rather, one must peel it and remove that layer.

And we reject this:

No,

that is not the basis of their disagreement. Rather,

everyone

holds that

the slaughtering area is hot.

The one who says, “He must peel,”

has stated his view well, for since it is hot, it absorbs.

And the one who says, “He must rinse,”

holds that although the slaughtering area is hot,

since the organs are occupied with expelling blood, they do not absorb

from the knife, and therefore rinsing is sufficient.

There are those who say: Everyone,

both Rav and Rabba bar bar Ḥana, holds that

the slaughtering area is cold.

The one who says, “He must rinse,” has a sound

basis for his ruling, since, as the slaughtering area is cold, it does not absorb.

And

the one who says, “He must peel,”

holds that even though it is cold,

because of the pressure of the knife,

which rubs forcefully against the flesh,

it absorbs

from the knife.

A knife

with which one slaughtered an animal that was found to be

a tereifa—

Rav Aḥa and Ravina disagree about it. One said:

It is prohibited to slaughter other animals with it until it is scalded

with hot water,

because the knife absorbed fatty residue from the tereifa. If one slaughters with it again without scalding it, it will in turn transfer the prohibited substance absorbed in it to the slaughtering area of the kosher animal.

And the other said:

One must rinse the knife even

with cold water,

and that is sufficient. For he holds that the slaughtering area is cold, and therefore the knife did not absorb; rather, the prohibited substance merely adhered to its outside, and consequently rinsing is sufficient.

And we conclude:

And the halakha is

that it is sufficient

even to

rinse it

with cold water.

is sufficient.

And if there is a piece of coarse cloth

[unclear: an old, stiff piece of cloth]

with which to wipe it

[unclear: to wipe the knife], that is sufficient, and

even rinsing it with water is not necessary.

And we challenge this:

And according to the one who says

that a knife with which one slaughtered a tereifa requires scalding

with hot water, what is his reason?

Is it not

because it absorbed

into itself

prohibited substance

from the fatty residue of the tereifa? If so, a knife with which one slaughtered an animal

that was permitted should also

become prohibited, for

it absorbed

at the beginning of the slaughter, before the animal became permitted through the slaughter, the fatty residue of

a limb from a living creature.

And we explain:

When did it absorb

the forbidden fatty residue?

Only once the slaughtering area became hot,

the knife absorbed it.

When does the slaughtering area become hot

?—

Once the

unclear: the source has an attached grammatical fragment here

slaughter is complete.

But

at that moment, it was already permitted.

For by then the prohibition of a limb from a living creature had already been removed from it, and it follows that the knife never absorbed a prohibited substance.

Rav Yehuda said in the name of Rav: A slaughterer must have

for himself

three knives.

One knife

with which he slaughters.

He should not cut anything else with it, lest it become nicked, and sometimes he might slaughter with it without inspecting it and thereby incur the prohibition of an unslaughtered animal.

And

one knife

with which he cuts meat.

And

another with which he cuts forbidden fats,

which are prohibited to eat and which he cuts in order to sell them to gentiles. He should not cut meat with it, since prohibited substance adheres to it.

And we challenge this: Why do we require two knives for cutting?

Let him prepare one

for both purposes

and cut meat with it

first,

and afterward cut forbidden fats with it.

When he wishes to return and cut meat from another animal, he will remember to render the knife fit for use, will he not?

And we explain: We require two knives because of

a decree, lest he cut forbidden fats and afterward meat

in the same animal, and forget to wipe the knife between them because he is occupied with his work; the meat would then be prohibited because forbidden fatty residue becomes mixed into it.

And we challenge this: Just as you are concerned that he will reverse the order of cutting,

now,

with two knives,

also

there is reason to be concerned that

they will become switched for him,

and he will cut the meat with the knife used for forbidden fats!?

And we explain:

Since they required him

to prepare

two

knives,

he has a distinguishing mark,

through a sign that he makes on them.

And Rav Yehuda said in the name of Rav: A slaughterer must have two vessels of water: one in which he rinses meat, and one in which he rinses forbidden fats.

And we challenge this:

Let him prepare

one

single

vessel

and rinse in it

the

meat first, and afterward rinse forbidden fats in it; why, then, does he need two vessels?

And we explain:

A

decree, lest

at first he

rinse

in the vessel used for

forbidden fats, and afterward

rinse

meat in it.

The water would already be infused with fatty residue from the forbidden fats through the rubbing of his hands, and the fatty residue would adhere to the surface of the meat. Although the meat is cold and does not absorb it, the prohibited substance would nevertheless adhere to it.

And we challenge this:

Now,

when he has two vessels,

also

there is reason to be concerned lest

they become switched for him,

and he rinse the meat in the vessel in which he had already rinsed forbidden fats.

And we explain:

Since we required him to have two

vessels,

he has

in them

a distinguishing mark,

and he will not switch them.

Ameimar said in the name of Rav Pappa: A person should not place the flanks

[unclear: the flanks with kidney fat adhering to them]

on top of the meat,

because

the fat will melt

[unclear: the fat becomes heated and runs onto the meat]

and the meat will absorb

it.

And we challenge this:

If so, when

they are placed

on a flat surface

[unclear: the flanks alone are placed on the shelf in their usual position, with the fat on top],

the fat will likewise melt, and the meat will absorb

the fat from the flanks themselves, from the fat adhering to them.

And we explain:

A membrane

[unclear: a membrane]

separates from beneath

the fat, between it and the meat adhering to it.