Avodah Zarah 8b (ח:) — the Talmud in English

Therefore,

this is what he should do: !(pamud.bmp " exact page location")

every thirty days

following the hillula [the wedding celebration],

whether he told him

that the gentile was making this feast

because of the hillula, or whether he did not tell him, it is forbidden

to participate in his feast, because presumably he is making the feast because of the marriage, and throughout all the days of the hillula he offers sacrifices to idols.

From that point onward,

after thirty days, if

he told him

that the gentile’s feast was

because of the hillula—

it is forbidden. But if he did not tell him, “because of the hillula,”

but merely invited him without specifying,

it is permitted.

It is permitted, because then it is not certain that he is offering sacrifices to idols.

The Gemara explains: When he tells him, “because of the hillula,” until when does the hillula continue, so that it remains forbidden to participate?

And when he tells him,

when he indeed tells him

“because of the hillula,”

until when?

Until when is it forbidden?

Rav Pappa said: Until twelve months of the year.

Twelve months of the year, and no longer.

The Gemara now discusses from when, before the day of the hillula, it is forbidden.

And initially,

before the marriage, from when do we suspect that his feast is for the sake of the marriage?

From when is it forbidden

to participate in his feast?

Rav Pappa said in the name

of

Rava: From when they place

from the time they put

barley

barley

in the asinta,

in a trough in order to make beer, as the beginning of his preparations for the feast.

The Gemara challenges what was said: After twelve months, it is permitted if he did not tell him that the feast was because of the marriage:

And

if

after twelve months of the year

after twelve months of the year,

it is permitted,

is it permitted?!

But

we find that

Rav Yitzḥak, son of Rav

Mesharsheya, happened to arrive

he came

at the home of

the house of

a certain gentile, after twelve months of the year, and heard him

and Rav Yitzḥak heard him

praising,

that he was praising his idol,

and he did not eat

Rav Yitzḥak at his home.

This shows that even after twelve months they still praise idols?!

The Gemara answers:

It is different

in the case of

Rav Yitzḥak, son of Rav Mesharsheya,

since

he was an important person

and the gentile was exceedingly happy with him; therefore he praised his idol. But for an ordinary person, it is permitted.

We learned in our Mishna:

And Kratismus.

After the Gemara brought a beraita to explain “Kalandas” and “Saturnura,” which were taught in the Mishna, the Gemara proceeds to explain “Kratismus.”

What is Kratismus?

Rav Yehuda said that Shmuel said: The day on which Rome seized sovereignty,

when they fought the Greeks and defeated them and ruled over the entire world. They celebrate this day and offer sacrifices to their idols on it.

The Gemara challenges: How can you say that it is the day on which Rome seized sovereignty?—

But

it was

taught in a beraita: Kratismus and the day on which Rome seized sovereignty

are forbidden for the three preceding days.

This proves that Kratismus and the day on which Rome seized sovereignty are two separate matters!

The Gemara answers:

Rav Yosef said:

Indeed,

Rome seized sovereignty twice. One was in the days of Cleopatra the queen,

Cleopatra, queen of Alexandria, against whom the Romans fought, defeated her, and seized the Egyptian kingdom from her.

And one was when Rome seized

Rome

in the days of the Greeks,

from the Greeks; and both of these days serve them as festival days.

The Gemara relates the story of Rome’s seizure of the Greek kingdom. The Gemara recounts Rome’s seizure of the Greek kingdom.

When

when

Rav Dimi

arrived from Eretz Yisrael in Babylonia,

he said:

The Romans waged thirty-two battles

thirty-two battles [wars]

against the Greeks

the Romans fought

with the Greeks,

with the Greeks,

and were unable to defeat them

and did not vanquish them

until they joined Israel with them,

for the Romans joined the Jews with them,

and this is what they stipulated with them:

and this is what the Romans stipulated with the Jews: When we defeat the Greeks together,

if our king reigns,

if a king from among us, the Romans, reigns,

your governors shall be appointed by us,

we will appoint the governors of the provinces from among you.

If your king reigns,

but if a king from among you reigns,

our governors shall be appointed by you,

the governors of the provinces will be appointed from among us.

The Romans sent messengers to the Greeks,

the Romans sent messengers to the Greeks, saying:

Until now we have fought in battle,

until now we have fought one another in battle, with neither victor nor vanquished.

Now let us proceed by law,

now let us determine with whom justice lies!

The Romans also presented the Greeks with a parable:

A pearl and a precious stone—which of them should serve as a setting

a base

for

in which to set

the other?

The Greeks sent back to them

the Greeks replied to the Romans:

The pearl,

which is not so valuable, should serve as a setting

for the precious stone!

The Romans again sent to the Greeks:

“A precious stone and an ayinakh,”

[a shoham stone, which is exceedingly valuable],

which of them should serve as a setting for the other?

The Greeks said to them:

The precious stone

should serve as a setting

for the ayinakh!

The Romans again sent to the Greeks:

“An ayinakh and a Torah scroll—which of them should serve as a setting for the other?”—

The Greeks said to them:

The ayinakh for the Torah scroll!

They sent back to them

the Romans sent to the Greeks:

[If so,

although you consider yourselves important,]

we have a Torah scroll,

we have a Torah scroll with us,

and

the sons of

Israel are with us,

they are on our side; therefore you must submit to us!

They subdued them,

the Romans defeated the Greeks.

For twenty-six years

twenty-six years

they remained faithful to Israel,

the Romans maintained their loyalty to the Jewish people and did not enslave them, but

from that point onward,

after this period,

they enslaved them,

they betrayed their loyalty and enslaved the Jews under them.

The Gemara explains:

Initially,

at first, when the Romans maintained their loyalty,

what did they expound?

What source did they find in the Torah to expound as requiring them to remain loyal to the Jews?

And ultimately,

when they betrayed them,

what did they expound?

Initially they expounded

at first they expounded from what is stated in the Torah [Genesis 33], where Esau, the ancestor of Edom [the Romans], said to Jacob: “

Let us travel and go, and I will proceed alongside you.”

Let us go together as equals, and honor one another!

And ultimately they expounded,

from Jacob’s response to Esau [there]:

“Let my lord go ahead of his servant,”

meaning that Jacob appointed Esau as a ruler who goes at the head.

The Gemara cites a statement in the name of Rabbi Yosei [Rabbi Yosei ben Ḥalafta, author of the book Seder Olam on history and chronology] to prove that the Romans remained loyal to the Jews for twenty-six years.

Twenty-six years

twenty-six years

during which they remained faithful to Israel,

when the Romans maintained their loyalty to the Jews—

from where do we know this?

For Rav

For Rav

Kahana said:

When Rabbi Yishmael, son of Rabbi Yosei, fell ill, they sent to him

the Sages

[saying:] Rabbi, tell us two or three things that you told us in the name of

your father,

Rabbi Yosei, concerning the history of the Jewish people!

He said to them:

This is what I received from my father:

a.

One hundred eighty years before the Temple was destroyed

the Second Temple,

the

ruled

wicked kingdom

Rome

over Israel.

b.

Eighty years before

the

Temple was destroyed, the Sages decreed

the

impurity of the land of the nations and of glass vessels.

c.

c.

Forty years before

the

Temple was destroyed, the Sanhedrin was exiled

from its place in the Chamber of Hewn Stone in the Temple,

and it sat in a shop,

on the Temple Mount.

Before the Gemara proves from these statements that the Romans remained loyal for twenty-six years, it explains for what purpose the Sanhedrin was exiled.

For what halakhic purpose?

For what purpose did they do this?

Rav Yitzḥak bar Avdimi said: To teach that they did not judge capital cases.

They discontinued the Sanhedrin’s sitting and did not adjudicate capital cases [such as the laws concerning payment of a fine for rape or seduction and the thirty-sela payment for a slave], which may be adjudicated only by judges who possess ordination.

But the Gemara asks: Do you think that to adjudicate fines one needs the Sanhedrin sitting in the Chamber of Hewn Stone?

Capital cases—you might think so?!

After all, only three ordained judges are needed, wherever they are?

The Gemara cites a statement of Rav Yehuda to prove that even after the destruction of the Temple, and even outside Jerusalem, fines were adjudicated:

But Rav Yehuda said that Rav said: Indeed, that man is remembered for good, and his name was Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava; had it not been for him, the laws of fines would have been forgotten from Israel!

[As will be explained.]

Before Rav Yehuda continues to recount the story of Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava, the Gemara challenges what he said—that had it not been for him, the laws of fines would have been forgotten from Israel:

Forgotten?! Let them study them!

If they were forgotten, they could be restored through Torah study. There were several Torah scholars in his generation; what, then, was Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava’s greatness?

The Gemara answers:

Rather,

his intention was to say:

“The laws of fines were abolished” from Israel.

For the laws of fines may be adjudicated only by a court of ordained judges, each ordained by a predecessor tracing back to Moses our teacher. In the time of Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava, the Sages refrained from ordaining their students, and he risked his life for this matter; by his merit, the chain of ordination was not severed.

Rav Yehuda continues to recount in the name of Rav:

The wicked kingdom

Rome

issued a decree,

after the destruction of the Temple:

“Anyone who ordains—

he shall be killed!” And “anyone who is ordained—

he shall be killed!” And “a city in which they ordain—

shall be destroyed!” And “the boundary

of two thousand cubits surrounding

the city in which they ordain—

shall be uprooted!”

What did Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava do

so that ordination would not be abolished from Israel?—

He went and sat between two great mountains, and between two great towns, between two Shabbat boundaries, between

the city of

Usha and

the city of

Shefar’am,

so that the Romans would not destroy the city or uproot the boundary,

and there he ordained five elders,

Sages. And these were they:

Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehuda

ben Ila’i,

Rabbi Yosei

ben Ḥalafta,

Rabbi Shimon

bar Yoḥai,

and Rabbi Elazar ben Shamua.

The amora

Rav Avya adds

to this tradition: Also

Rabbi Neḥemya.

When they were recognized,

when the

enemies

the Romans heard about this,

he said to them

Rabbi Yehuda ben Bava said to the five [or six] Sages:

My sons! Run!

Flee from the Roman legions.

They said to him: Rabbi, and what will become of you?

He said to them:

I cannot flee. Rather,

behold, I am cast before them like a stone that cannot be turned over.

They said,

the Sages related:

The Roman legions did not move

from that place

until they drove three hundred

iron spears

into his body,

and made his body

pierced

like a sieve.

Thus, even after the destruction, fines were adjudicated, and even outside Jerusalem. Why, then, did Rav Yitzḥak bar Avdimi say that the Sanhedrin was exiled to the shop so that they would not adjudicate fines?

The Gemara answers:

Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said: Do not say

that they did not adjudicate

“laws of fines,” but rather

they did not adjudicate

“capital cases”

[as will be explained].

What is the reason?

What was the reason for their exile, and what benefit was there in their exile? After all, capital cases may be adjudicated by a minor Sanhedrin in every city?

When they saw

when the Sages of the generation saw, forty years before the destruction,

that they had become numerous,

that there had been an increase in

murderers,

and they could not judge them,

they would not have enough time to adjudicate them,

they said

the Sages of the generation:

It is better that we be exiled,

that it is preferable for us to be exiled

from place to place,

from the Chamber of Hewn Stone to outside it,

so that we would not be able to impose liability,

so that we would not sentence the murderers to death.

In other words, capital cases are not adjudicated even by a minor Sanhedrin in each city and tribe, except when the great Sanhedrin sits in the Chamber of Hewn Stone. Therefore, they were exiled so that they would be unable to adjudicate capital cases even in a minor Sanhedrin.

And from where do we learn that if the great Sanhedrin does not sit in the Chamber of Hewn Stone, capital cases are not adjudicated?

As it is written

[Deuteronomy 17] in the passage concerning the rebellious elder, which concerns capital cases,

“And you shall do according to the matter that they tell you from that place.”

And we expound:

This teaches that the place is determinative

in imposing liability upon the defendant. And if the Sanhedrin is not there, capital cases are not adjudicated.

The Gemara now returns to prove that the Romans remained loyal for twenty-six years. The proof is based on the following beraita, which contradicts Rabbi Yosei’s statement that the Romans ruled over Israel one hundred eighty years before the destruction of the Temple. When we resolve the contradiction, we will see that they indeed remained loyal for twenty-six years.

The Gemara challenges: Is it true that

only one hundred eighty

years before the destruction of the Temple the Roman kingdom extended its rule over Israel—

and no more?!

And not before that?!

But Rabbi Yosei, son of Rabbi, taught

[and he is the aforementioned Rabbi Yosei, author of Seder Olam]: