Avodah Zarah 9a — the Talmud in English

The Persian kingdom

ruled over Israel

before the Temple,

during the period of the Second Temple. And their kingdom lasted

thirty-four years.

And the Persian kingdom was annulled, and

the Greek kingdom took hold of it;

and it ruled over the Land of Israel

before the Temple,

while the Temple was still standing,

one hundred and eighty years.

And the Hasmonean and his sons took the kingship from the Greeks, and

the Hasmonean kingdom ruled before the Temple for one hundred and three

years.

The house of Herod

ruled after them

one hundred and three

years.

And their kingdom continued until the destruction of the Temple.

From here onward, go out and calculate

the reckoning of the years

after the destruction of the Temple,

and then a new reckoning begins. And one who comes to count the order of the years, for the history of the Sages, or to write the “time” in a document, or another event, counts from the destruction of the Temple -

And these two baraitot appear, at first glance, to contradict one another. For in this baraita it is said that the Hasmoneans together with the kings of Herod ruled [under the rule of the Romans] for two hundred and six years, whereas in the preceding baraita it is said that the Romans ruled over Israel for one hundred and eighty years.

Rather, it must be answered that there is no contradiction here, for indeed the Hasmoneans began to rule in the Land of Israel two hundred and six years before the destruction; but during the first twenty-six years the Israelites ruled alone, because the Romans maintained their loyalty to Israel. Only afterward, in the days of Yohanan, the fifth king of the Hasmoneans, did the Romans take control and betray their loyalty to Israel, and rule also over the Hasmonean house and the house of Herod. It follows that one hundred and eighty years before the destruction, the Roman kingdom spread over Israel.

The kingdoms that ruled during the time of the Second Temple:

Persian kingdom - 34

Greek kingdom - 180

Hasmoneans - 26

Hasmoneans under the Romans - 77

Total: Hasmoneans - 103

House of Herod under the Romans - 103

Total under Roman rule - 180

Second Temple - 420

Rather, twenty-six years,

twenty-six years,

they remained in their faithfulness with Israel,

they maintained their loyalty with the Israelites,

and they did not enslave them,

and they did not subjugate the Israelites.

And because of this,

and therefore,

he does not count them,

the tanna does not count these years in the first baraita, when he says

“when the wicked kingdom spread”

and this is the Roman kingdom

over Israel,

for they did not rule, but participated with them. And from here we learn what they said above, that they maintained their loyalty for twenty-six years.

We learned in a baraita: From here onward, go out and calculate how many years after the destruction of the Temple. That is, from the year of the destruction of the Temple a new reckoning begins.

But the writers of bills of divorce and documents wrote in the document the number of years according to the Greek kingdom, that is, so-and-so’s year from the beginning of the Greek kingdom [as explained on the next page].

And they too, the writers of documents, do not count from the actual beginning of their kingdom, but six years after it, because their kingdom became established only six years after the establishment of the Greek kingdom [Alexander of Macedon captured Elam from the Persian king in the year 3442 from the creation of the world, but his general kingdom began in the year 3448]

The Temple was destroyed three hundred and eighty years after the general kingdom of the Greek kingdom.

And this is the calculation:

Greek kingdom 180 180 - 6 = 174; Hasmoneans and Herod 206; 174 + 206 = 380; the Temple was destroyed - 3828

The tanna who counts from the year of the destruction of the Temple, and the scribe who counts from the Greek kingdom, if they do not know the number of the year in which they stand, can clarify one from the other: the tanna who counts from the year of the destruction will ask the scribe in which year the scribe stands, and add twenty years to it—for even if he does not know the number of the “particular” year, he certainly knows the “general” number, which “century” it is, for a person does not err about this, but only about the “particular,” that is, the years within the hundreds—and thus he will know his reckoning [380 + 20 = 400].

For example: if the “scribe” tells him that it is now year fifty-three, he will write seventy-three, and his reckoning will come out correctly.

And conversely, when the “scribe” does not know the number of the year, he will clarify it with the tanna who counts from the year of the destruction, and subtract twenty years, and his reckoning will come out correctly.

Rav Pappa said: If this tanna errs,

he errs in the number of the years,

and does not know what the particular number was,

he does not know the “particular” of the year, in which year he stands -

let him ask the scribe,

let him ask the scribe

what is written,

what number he writes,

and let him add to them

and add to them

twenty years, and he will find its total,

and he will find the sum of his reckoning.

And your sign:

you shall have as a sign this verse [Genesis 31]

“This is twenty years for me in your house.”

That is, the tanna who counts from the destruction of the Temple adds twenty years.

And likewise,

if the scribe errs

and does not know the number of the year in which he stands,

let him ask the tanna,

let him ask the tanna,

what does he count,

how many years does he count,

and let him subtract from them,

and subtract from them

twenty years, and he will find its total,

then he will find his reckoning.

And your sign,

this sign shall be in your hand, so that you do not exchange the teaching, who subtracts and who adds:

Scribe -

less.

The scribe is accustomed to make his writing concise, and is precise to write with letters omitted according to the tradition [and this shall be for you a hint that the scribe subtracts the twenty years].

Tanna -

additional.

The tanna teaches baraitot, which were added to the Mishnayot [and this is a hint that the tanna adds the twenty years].

The tanna of the school of Elijah said: The world is destined to exist for six thousand years,

it was decreed that the world exist, corresponding to the six days of creation, with each thousand years compared to one day, and after them one thousand years that will be Shabbat and rest for the world.

Of these six thousand,

, two thousand

of them were decreed for the world to be “years of

chaos,”

without Torah.

Two thousand

after them are “years of

Torah,”

without the days of the Messiah.

And two thousand

after them are the years fit to be

“the days of the Messiah,”

in which it is fitting for the Messiah to come.

But

because of our many sins, some of them have passed,

the years of the Messiah have already passed

of those that have passed,

many years that have already elapsed, and the Messiah has still not come!

And the Gemara explains the baraita:

Two thousand

years of

Torah, from when,

from when do we begin counting them?

If you say,

if we say that the counting of the two thousand years of Torah is

from the giving of the Torah until now,

until the end of four thousand years from the creation of the world, it is difficult, for

there are not that many!

For from the time of the giving of the Torah until the year four thousand from creation there are not two thousand years.

For when you examine them,

when you examine the preceding two thousand years of chaos [if you calculate them, as will be explained],

two thousand,

two complete “thousand years,”

and the particular part of this thousand,

and several portions of the third thousand,

that is what there was!

For the years of chaos from the creation of the world until the giving of the Torah are more than two thousand years, because the Torah was given in the year 2448 from the creation of the world. 1\.

In

Tosafot,

Rabbi Elhanan,

and in

the Ritva,

it is explained that they had a different version [and this is also implied by

Rashi].

And according to

“the calculation of the years according to the verses of the Torah is as follows:

Adam the first - 1

Seth - 130

Enosh - 235

Kenan - 325

Mahalalel - 395

Enoch - 622

Methuselah - 687

Lamech - 874

Noah - 1056

Shem - 1558

the Flood - 1656

Arpachshad - 1658

Shelah - 1693

Eber - 1723

Peleg - 1757

Reu - 1787

Serug - 1819

Nahor - 1849

Terah - 1878

Abraham - 1948

Generation of the Dispersion - 1996

Isaac - 2048

Jacob - 2108

Jacob in Egypt - 2238

Egyptian exile - 210 years

the Exodus from Egypt and the receiving of the Torah - 2448

And it is difficult, for from the time of the giving of the Torah until the end of the fourth thousand there are only one thousand five hundred and fifty-two years? [1552 = 2448 - 4000],

and the calculation is short by four hundred forty-eight.

That version raises a difficulty concerning what the baraita said, that many years had already passed from the days of the years [448 = 1552 - 2000].

And we answer: the two thousand years of Torah do not begin from the time of the giving of the Torah,

but from

the time concerning which it was said

“and the souls that they made in Haran.”

That is, from the time that Abraham our forefather brought souls under the wings of the Divine Presence and bound them to Torah; from that time they begin to count the two thousand years of Torah.

And

when did Abraham begin to make souls in Haran?

We have learned by tradition,

a tradition is in our hands,

that Abraham at that time

at that time

was fifty-two years old,

he was fifty-two years old.

Abraham was born in the year 1948; add fifty-two years to them + 52 = 2000.

How much did the tanna subtract from what the tanna taught,

how many years are lacking for you from the years that the tanna said? -

Four hundred forty-eight,

four hundred forty-eight years.

For when you examine it,

when you examine and calculate how much time there is

from

the time concerning which it was said

“the souls that they made in Haran” until the giving of the Torah,

the calculation will come out that

there are four hundred forty-eight years.

From the time Abraham was fifty-two until the giving of the Torah, this is exactly four hundred forty-eight years. It follows that the two thousand years of Torah ended one hundred seventy-two years after the destruction of the Temple [see in the table].

Abraham at age 52 - 2000

The Exodus from Egypt and the giving of the Torah - 2448

The First Temple - 480 years after the Exodus from Egypt - 2928

The destruction of the First Temple - after it stood for 410 years - 3338

The building of the Second Temple after 70 years of the Babylonian exile - 3408

The destruction of the Second Temple after it stood for 420 years - 3828 172

years after the destruction - 4000

The “tanna” who wishes to count how many years have already passed from the days of the Messiah, and does not remember his count, can ask the “scribe” in which year he stands according to the count of the Greek kingdom, and according to his reckoning—by adding forty-eight—the tanna can align his count.

For the scribe counts from the time the Greek kingdom spread, which was in the year 3448 from the creation of the world, while the tanna counts from the year 4000; it follows that the “particular” years of the scribe precede the order of the tanna by forty-eight years.

Rav Pappa said: If the tanna errs,

if the tanna errs,

and does not know what his particular number is,

and does not know which “particular” year he stands in -

let him ask the scribe what is written,

let him ask the scribe how many years he writes, according to his reckoning,

and let him add to them

and add to them

forty-eight

forty-eight,

and he will find its total

its connection] and will find the number of years according to his reckoning.

And your sign

this sign shall be in your hand: