Avodah Zarah 35b — the Talmud in English

Here,

the Mishna in Tractate Chullin that says that the stomach contents of a gentile are forbidden was taught

before the retraction that Rabbi Yehoshua retracted from his words in our Mishna, “for they curdle it with the stomach contents of an unslaughtered carcass,” and he then held that the milk in the animal’s stomach is not mere excrement [but after Rabbi Yishmael demonstrated to him that there is no prohibition at all in the stomach contents of an unslaughtered carcass, Rabbi Yehoshua retracted from his words].

when Rabbi Yehoshua retracted his statement in our Mishna, “for they curdle it in the stomach of an animal carcass,” since he had then held that the milk in the animal’s stomach was not merely excrement [but after Rabbi Yishmael demonstrated to him that there is no prohibition at all in the stomach of an animal carcass, Rabbi Yehoshua retracted his statement].

But the words of Shmuel

here, “because they curdle it with the hide of the stomach of an unslaughtered carcass,” were said

was stated

after the retraction, when Rabbi Yehoshua retracted from his words, and therefore Shmuel needed this reason, that they curdled the cheese with the hide of the stomach of an unslaughtered carcass. Since the contents of the stomach itself are permitted.

.

And

however, that

Mishna, in which the prohibition of the stomach contents of an unslaughtered carcass was stated, they did not uproot it, and it

in which the prohibition of the stomach contents of an animal carcass was stated, was not uprooted and

did not move from its place entirely, since it had already been taught. But the halakha is not in accordance with it.

entirely, since it had already been taught. Nevertheless, the halakha does not follow it.

And now the Gemara brings additional reasons why gentile cheese is forbidden:

Rav Malkiya in the name

in the name of

of Rav Adda bar Ahava said: the reason that this cheese is forbidden is

The reason this cheese is forbidden is

because they smooth its surface

of the cheese

with pig fat!

Rav Chisda said:

the reason that this cheese is forbidden is

because

because the gentiles

curdle it with vinegar,

through which it curdles. And the vinegar is from wine that is forbidden to derive benefit from.

Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak said:

the reason is

because they curdle it with the sap of orla,

which is forbidden to derive benefit from.

In accordance with whom,

in whose opinion was this statement said? —

In accordance with this tanna:

For it was taught:

Rabbi Eliezer says: One who curdles

milk in order to make it cheese

with the sap of orla —

it is forbidden,

because it,

the sap, is considered like

produce.

And the Gemara rejects: There is no necessity to establish the words of Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak specifically in accordance with the words of

even if you say

that the words of Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak were said in accordance with the view of

Rabbi Yehoshua,

who disagrees with Rabbi Eliezer in the Mishna in Orla, they can be reconciled as follows:

Rabbi Yehoshua disagreed

[he disagreed]

with Rabbi Eliezer only concerning the sap of the branch,

with regard to the law of sap that comes out of the tree. For Rabbi Eliezer’s opinion is that this sap is considered orla produce, whereas Rabbi Yehoshua’s opinion is not so.

But concerning the sap of the fruit,

with regard to the law of sap that comes out of the fruit itself,

Rabbi Yehoshua concedes

that it is forbidden.

And this is what we learned in a Mishna,

and this is what we learned there in Orla:

Rabbi Yehoshua said: I heard explicitly that one who curdles

cheese

with sap

that rises from

the leaves, and with sap

that rises from

the roots,

the roots —

it is permitted.

However,

with sap

that comes out of

unripe fruits,

fruits that have not ripened —

it is forbidden, because it is produce,

fruit.

And therefore, it is possible to say that the words of Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak were stated even according to Rabbi Yehoshua, who forbids curdling cheese with the sap of orla fruit.

However, it is difficult:

Both according to

the reason of

Rav Chisda,

that the gentiles curdle the cheese with vinegar, and

both according to

the reason of

Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak,

that they curdle the cheese with sap of orla,

it should be forbidden

to forbid the cheese also

with regard to deriving benefit

as the law of libation wine and as the law of orla fruits; and why did the Sages forbid the cheese only for eating?

It is difficult!

Above, the Gemara explained the verse from Song of Songs 1:2, “Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth, for your love is better than wine,” and now the Gemara further explains the continuation of the verses there:

Rav Nachman, son of Rav Chisda, expounded: What

what is

that is written

[Song of Songs 1:3]

“For fragrance, your oils are good,

oil poured out is your name; therefore maidens love you”]?

The explanation is as follows:

To what is a Torah scholar comparable? To a flask of paletin

perfumed oil]. When this flask of perfumed oil

is uncovered, its fragrance spreads.

And this is what is said: “Oil poured out is your name.” When it is uncovered and its oil is poured out, its fragrance rises. So too is a Torah scholar. When he teaches Torah to students, he acquires a reputation and becomes known to the many.

But when the flask

is covered, its fragrance does not spread.

And so too with a Torah scholar. When he conceals himself, his Torah is not revealed to the many.

And furthermore,

when he teaches it to others,

matters that are concealed

and hidden

from him,

from the Torah scholar,

are revealed to him

by themselves, without effort.

As it is said

[Song of Songs 1:2] “therefore

maidens love you.” Read in it

it should be read

“concealed things.”

That is, matters hidden from him now become, as it were, “loving,” being revealed to him.

And furthermore, the angel of death loves him!

As it is said, “maidens love you.” Read in it

it should be read

“concerning death,”

that is, the angel of death appointed “over” death]]

And furthermore, he inherits two worlds: one, this world, and one, the World to Come. As it is said, “maidens.” Read in it

it should be read

“worlds.”

That is, two worlds are in his inheritance.

Mishna:

When the sages of Israel gathered in the upper room of Chanania ben Chizkiya ben Garon [one of the masters of wisdom and a great man of his generation] to visit him, a large gathering of the students of the House of Shammai and the House of Hillel assembled there, and no one in that generation who was fit to issue rulings remained who was not at that gathering. And these are the words of the Mishna, Shabbat 13b: “

And these are among the halakhot that were stated in the upper room of ben Chizkiya ben Garon, when they went up to visit him: the House of Shammai were counted and outnumbered the House of Hillel, and they decreed eighteen matters on that day.”

Five of these eighteen decrees were enacted in order to distance [Jews] from gentiles. They are: gentile bread, their oil, their wine, seclusion with their daughters, and that a gentile infant should impart ritual impurity through ziva.

Besides these decrees, the Sages added and decreed concerning types of food, as will be brought below in our Mishna. And there were also those who permitted or eased these decrees, as will be brought below in the Gemara.

Concerning the prohibitions brought in our Mishna, two reasons were stated:

]]A. So that he should not become accustomed to him through food and drink, and he cause him to stumble through impure food [Rashi].

]]B. Because eating together from the food of a gentile can lead to intermarriage with their daughters [Tosafot] .

Besides these concerns, the Sages forbade [in the Mishna and in the discussions of the Gemara below] certain foods concerning which there is a concern of kashrut.

Until now we learned from them the matters of gentiles that are forbidden both for eating and for deriving benefit. And now the Mishna explains —

And these

are

the matters of star worshippers

that are

forbidden,

but

their prohibition is not a prohibition against deriving benefit,

but only a prohibition against eating.

A.

Milk that a star worshipper milked, and no Jew sees him

at the time of milking.

B.

And the bread

that was made by him.

C.

And their oil,

it too is forbidden.

However, Rabbi

and his court permitted

the

oil.

D.

And cooked foods.

Anything that a gentile cooked, even a kosher thing cooked in a pure vessel, is forbidden. For there is concern lest they come to intermarriage with them through eating from their cooked foods.

E.

And

likewise

pickled foods,

things that are customarily pickled in vinegar such as fish, vegetables, and the head and feet of an animal,

which are customarily made with wine and vinegar put into them.

F.

And crushed terit.

A food made from a type of small, salted, chopped fish; and because they are chopped, the type of fish is not recognizable, and it is possible that impure fish are mixed into it.

G.

And fish brine

of fish

in which there is no

in the brine

a kalbit fish swimming in it.

There is a small fish called a kalbit, which grows and develops on its own only in the brine of pure fish, and not in that of impure fish. And if it is not found in the brine of a pure fish, there is concern that an impure fish was mixed into it. And for this reason the fish does not develop there.

And therefore, the brine of a fish in which the kalbit is not found is forbidden, because there is concern that brine of an impure fish is mixed there.

H.

And chilek,

a small and pure fish that has no fin or scale and is destined to grow them afterward—it is forbidden to take it from gentiles.

Although this fish itself is permitted, nevertheless it is forbidden to take it from gentiles. Since it is small, it is difficult to discern whether it was caught alone or whether additional impure fish came up with it in the trap.

I.

And a piece

a piece

of chaltit

[a sharp plant], which they customarily cut into koret [small pieces, grains], and there is concern that the knife with which they cut it was soiled with the fat of a tereifa. And since chaltit is sharp, it absorbs the taste of the fat. And for this reason it is forbidden.

J.

And

likewise

the salt of shalkundit.

Salt mixed with spices made from forbidden substances [such as pig fat and impure fish] -

then

all

these

that we enumerated here,

are forbidden, and their prohibition is not a prohibition against deriving benefit.

Gemara:

We learned in our Mishna: Milk that a gentile milked, and no Jew sees him, is forbidden.

The Gemara asks:

Milk—for what should we be concerned concerning it,

what is the concern because of which the milk is forbidden?

And the Gemara analyzes:

If it is because of substitution,

if the concern is lest he substituted impure milk for it, there is no reason for such concern. Since

pure

milk is

white,

white, whereas

impure

milk is

green.

And

likewise, if

because of mixing,

if the concern is lest he mixed impure milk with pure milk, and because of this its color is not so discernible,

let us set

the milk in an animal’s stomach [for this was the manner of producing cheese, by setting milk in an animal’s stomach].

And as

the Master said: Pure milk —

sets.

It curdles in the animal’s stomach, whereas

impure milk —

does not set

and harden in it. And this would be a sign whether the milk is pure or whether he perhaps mixed impure milk into it?!

The Gemara rejects this possibility: for

if he needs it,

if indeed he needs the milk in order

to

make from it

cheese, so too,

he can examine the milk by this method.

However,

here, with what are we dealing? He needs it

for a dish,

he needs the milk in order to put it into food as it is, and he is not interested in making cheese from it.

And for that reason, there is concern lest, in that milk, impure milk is mixed in, and this cannot be known from it. Therefore, all milk that comes from gentiles must be forbidden.

The Gemara asks: We still have a possibility of examining whether the milk is entirely pure, or whether impure milk is mixed into it.

And let us take a little from it,

take a little of the milk and set it with rennet,

and let it coagulate,

examine whether it is pure and coagulates, or perhaps it is impure and does not coagulate. And since this is so, we have advice on how to buy milk from gentiles, and the matter would be permitted?

The Gemara also rejects this possibility:

since

milk

also has whey,

there are always watery parts in milk,

which do not remain standing,

for they do not coagulate but remain water; because of that,

it is impossible to establish the matter,

it is impossible to examine it in this way, since in every milk, whether impure or pure, there are watery parts that do not coagulate. Therefore, there is concern lest the pure milk coagulate while the impure milk [unclear: the source text is corrupted here; it appears to say that the impure milk will not coagulate], and it follows that we have no possibility of examining whether the milk coming from the gentile is pure or whether he mixed impure milk into it. For that reason, all milk coming from gentiles without supervision was forbidden.

And if you wish, say

another manner concerning this matter:

even if you say that he needs it

let us say that he needs it

for cheese,

and if so, he will examine the milk by setting it with rennet, this possibility too is ineffective, since there are always

there are

whey particles

that remain between the folds

that remain between the hollows of the cheese, and there is concern that this water comes from impure milk.

We learned in our Mishna:

And the bread

of gentiles is forbidden.

Rav Kahana said,

in the name of

Rabbi Yoḥanan: The bread was not permitted by a court

as was the oil.

And the Gemara asks from this:

by implication

we learn that since it was not permitted by a court,

there is someone who permits it

there is someone who permitted it?!

And it answers:

No,

yes.

And where? The Gemara brings this possibility:

When

when

Rav Dimi

came from the Land of Israel to Babylonia,

he said: Once Rabbi went out to the field,

and a gentile brought before him

before Rabbi

a large-oven bread

made in a large oven

a seah-baking.

And

Rabbi said

about it:

How beautiful is this bread! What did the Sages see to forbid it?

The Gemara wonders: How did Rabbi ask

what did the Sages see

to forbid it? For it is explicitly stated [below] that the reason of the Sages for this prohibition is

because

there is concern lest through sitting and eating together with gentiles, they come to

intermarriage

with them.

Rather,

the intention of Rabbi’s question was:

what did the Sages see to forbid it

the bread of gentiles

in the field.

In a place where they do not sit and eat together with them, and there is no concern of intermarriage? -

These are Rabbi’s words.

And

the people thought

that through these words he expressed

Rabbi permitted

the

bread.

But,

that is not so!

Rabbi did not permit the bread!

Rather, it was merely a question. The Gemara brings another version of how that incident occurred.

Rav Yosef, and some say

and there are those who say that

Rav Shmuel bar Yehuda said: The incident did not occur this way! Rather, they said

the incident occurred as follows:

Once Rabbi went to a certain place and saw that bread was scarce,

that there was little bread

for

the

students to eat. Rabbi said: Is there no baker here,

a baker who would bake more bread for them?

The people thought to say

that Rabbi intended to search for a

baker

a baker

who was a gentile.

And they learned from this that Rabbi permitted gentile bread.

But he,

Rabbi,

said only

to search for a

baker

a baker

who was Jewish.

And indeed, nothing can be learned from this matter concerning gentile bread.

Rabbi Ḥelbo said: Even according to the one who says

according to the opinion of the one who says that Rabbi searched for a

baker

a baker

who was a gentile,

and thought to permit bread of a gentile baker,

we said

this permission was stated

only when there is no

when there is no

baker

a baker

who is Jewish

in that place. Only then did Rabbi permit bread of a gentile baker.

But in a place where there is

where there is

a Jewish baker,

not

did Rabbi permit bread of a gentile baker.

And Rabbi Yoḥanan said:

even according to the one who says,

according to the opinion of the one who says that Rabbi permitted bread of a

gentile baker, these words

this permission was stated only concerning bread given to him by the gentile

in the field,

in a manner in which there is no place there to recline together with the gentile.

But

bread given by the gentile

in the city, not

was the matter permitted,

because

of the concern lest they come to

intermarriage

if the gentile.

Aivo, it was

was

biting and eating,

biting and eating

bread

of gentiles

at the boundaries

at the boundaries of the fields.

Rava said to them

to him,

and some say

and there are those who say that

Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said: Do not speak

do not speak

with Aivo

together with Aivo, because

he is eating the bread of the Aramaeans,

for he eats the bread of gentiles.

We learned in our Mishna:

And their oil

is forbidden for eating.

Concerning the origin of the prohibition of

the oil

of gentiles, they disagreed:

Rav said: Daniel enacted a decree concerning it

to forbid it.