Avodah Zarah 35a — the Talmud in English

From this you learn that the law of the excrement is not like the law of the animal,

you learn from this that the law of animal dung is not the same as the law of the animal itself,

for those forbidden for benefit,

such as a burnt-offering and likewise an ox sentenced to be stoned, which are forbidden for benefit,

their excrement they permitted. Their excrement is permitted!

Their dung is permitted!

B. And the prohibition of benefit from the excrement of a calf of idolatry is learned from this:

And from the fact that he said to him, from the fact that Rabbi Joshua said to Rabbi Ishmael that the reason for the prohibition of gentile cheese is

from the fact that Rabbi Yehoshua said to Rabbi Yishmael that the reason for the prohibition against gentile cheese is

because they set it

with the stomachs of calves of idolatry, and he replied to him and Rabbi Ishmael answered him—

and Rabbi Yishmael answered him:

if so, why did they not prohibit it for benefit,

but only for eating?

From this

we learn from Rabbi Ishmael’s question

that idolatry—

its excrement is forbidden, its excrement is forbidden, and indeed one should prohibit it for benefit!

its dung is prohibited, and indeed it should be prohibited from benefit!

And now the Gemara discusses their disagreement:

And he should have replied to him,

why did Rabbi Joshua not answer him that the reason they did not prohibit it for benefit was

because the prohibition is not present in its substance,

that the prohibited substance is not present and recognizable?

For

for indeed

concerning fish-brine, according to

the opinion of

the Rabbis, who did not prohibit it for benefit—

what is the reason

they did not prohibit it — and is it

not because the prohibition is not present in its substance,

is it not because the prohibition [that is, gentile wine mixed into the fish-brine] is not present in its substance? And likewise let us say here: since the prohibition [the excrement contained in the stomach of the unslaughtered animal] is not present in its substance, but has been mixed with the cheese, for that reason it is permitted?

They said

to resolve this:

here,

here,

since it sets and sets,

since the excrement sets and curdles the cheese, its trace is recognizable,

it is considered

it is considered

as though its prohibition is present in its substance,

as though the prohibited substance itself is present. And for that reason, it is appropriate for this excrement to be forbidden for benefit, according to the law of idolatry.

And the Gemara brings and discusses the continuation of our Mishna:

He directed

Rabbi Joshua

to another matter,

and asked him: how do you read the verse [Song of Songs 1:2], “For your loves are better than wine”?

And the Gemara discusses:

What,

what is the meaning of the verse

“For your loves are better than wine”?

And it explains:

When

when

Rav Dimi

came from the Land of Israel to Babylonia,

he said: The Assembly of Israel said before the Holy One, blessed be He: “Master of the universe, the words of your beloved ones are pleasant to me [the words of the Sages and scribes]

—the words of the Sages and the Soferim—

more than its wine [the essence]

—the essence—

of Torah [written],” this is the meaning of the verse.

—the Written Torah.” This is the meaning of the verse.

The Gemara asks:

What is different

in what was this distinguished

this verse

this verse

that he asked him about it,

that Rabbi Joshua asked specifically about it?

Rabbi Shimon ben Pazi said, and some say

and some say that

Rabbi Shimon bar Ami

said this matter:

He said it to him from the beginning of the verse.

From the beginning of that verse, Rabbi Joshua intended to say his words to Rabbi Ishmael. And he said to him:

It is stated [Song of Songs 1:2]:

“Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth

for your loves are better than wine.”

Rabbi Joshua said to him

Rabbi Joshua:

“Ishmael, my brother, press

tightly

your lips one to another, and do not hurry to answer,

do not rise to raise an objection!

What is the reason,

why did Rabbi Joshua say this to him?

Ulla said, and some say,

and some say that Rav Shmuel bar Abba said this matter:

It is a new decree

to prohibit gentile cheese,

and one does not question it.

And the Gemara explains:

What is the decree,

because of what was there a decree to prohibit the cheese of gentiles?

Rabbi Shimon ben Pazi said that Rabbi Joshua ben Levi said:

the reason for the decree is

because of

the concern of

snake-bite,

lest a snake bit this cheese.

But if so,

and let him say to him,

let Rabbi Joshua say to Rabbi Ishmael that the prohibition of the cheese is

because of snake-bite?

The answer: the reason Rabbi Joshua did not explain the reason for the decree is

as Ulla.

For Ulla said: When they decreed a decree in the West

when they decreed a decree in the Land of Israel,

they did not reveal its reason,

they did not reveal its reason,

until twelve months of the year,

until twelve months of the year had passed from the time of the decree, because

perhaps there is a person who does not accept it,

perhaps there are people who do not hold by and accept the reason for the decree,

and they will come

and may

disparage

to disparage

it.

And for that reason they do not reveal the reason for the decree, and everyone accepts it and follows it, because they rely on the Sages who enacted it for a proper purpose.

He reviled it

he challenged

Rabbi Yirmeya: Rather, from now on,

since the reason for the enactment is because of the concern that a snake bit it, gentile cheese

dry, let it be permitted,

let it be permitted,

and likewise

old

old cheese—

let it be permitted,

let it be permitted?

Because

Rabbi Hanina said:

a thing that was exposed, and there is concern lest a snake ate from it and cast its venom into it, if it became

dry, it is permitted

for eating. For if there had been venom in it,

the venom does not

the venom

allow it to dry.

And since it became dry, it is evident that it never contained venom.

And likewise wine or beer

old

that had been exposed when they were new,

is permitted

to drink from them. For the venom

does not allow it

to the wine

to become old [to age],

but spoils it.

And accordingly, cheese that became dry, or is old, should be permitted, for there is no concern of snake-bite with it?!

Rabbi Hanina said

because it is impossible for it

for cheese

without

there being between the cavities of the cheese

traces of milk,

remnants of the milk. And it is possible that at the time of preparing the cheese, the gentile mixed impure milk into it, which did not curdle, and that is what remains in it. Therefore, gentile cheese is forbidden.

And Shmuel said:

the reason gentile cheese is forbidden is

because they set it with the skin of the stomach of an unslaughtered animal.

And the skin of the stomach is not excrement, but is part of the body of the unslaughtered animal, and it curdles the milk placed inside it into cheese.

And from here the Gemara proves, according to Shmuel:

this

the contents of the

stomach itself,

that is, the milk contained within it,

is permitted,

is permitted. Since according to Shmuel the sole manner of prohibition is setting the cheese with the skin of the stomach.

And if so, the Gemara is astonished:

And did

does

Shmuel really say this,

that the milk contained in the stomach is permitted, and is merely like ordinary excrement, and is permitted?

But we learned

for we learned in tractate Chullin [116a]:

The stomach of an idolater, and

the stomach

of an unslaughtered animal—this is forbidden.

And we discussed it: Is it so that

its stomach

of an idolater is not an unslaughtered animal?

And

concerning this

Shmuel said:

not two laws were stated here, but

one

one law

it teaches

is stated here, and it is:

the stomach of

an animal slaughtered by

the slaughter of an idolater,

the stomach

is an unslaughtered animal,

and

is forbidden.

And if so, we see that according to Shmuel the stomach of an unslaughtered animal is forbidden; how, then, did Shmuel permit it here?

And the Gemara answers:

It is not difficult: