Avodah Zarah 33b — the Talmud in English

The Gemara is uncertain:

it was asked of them:

is the permission to put fish brine and murais into these jugs a permission to do so

initially, or

only if one has already put them in is the matter valid

after the fact?

And the Gemara brings a proof to resolve this uncertainty:

come and hear, for he taught

he taught

Rav Zevid bar Oshaya: One who purchases jugs from idolaters.

If the jugs were

new

ones, he

puts wine into them.

And if the jugs were

old,

he does not put wine into them, but

he puts fish brine and murais into them—

initially!

And thereby the Gemara’s uncertainty is resolved.

Rabbi Yehuda Nesi’a asked Rabbi Ami:

Jugs that were purchased from gentiles and in which forbidden wine had been, if

he returned them to the furnace of fire and they became glowing, what is the ruling?

Does the glowing render them permitted?

He said to him

Rabbi Ami: Since we have learned,

fish brine

of fish

burns

the wine absorbed in the vessel,

fire [אש הליבון] [the fire of the glowing]

[the fire used for heating]

all the more so!?

Surely it burns it!

It was also stated

it was further said concerning this matter:

Rabbi Yohanan said, and some say

there are those who say that this matter

Rabbi Asi said [בשם] [in the name of]

[in the name of]

Rabbi Yohanan: Jugs of idolaters that he returned to the furnace of fire, once their pitch was removed from them

through the fire, there is no longer wine absorbed in them, and they are

permitted.

Rav Ashi said: Do not say

it is unnecessary to say that the vessel is permitted only

until they are removed

when the pitch is entirely removed,

but even if it merely becomes loosened,

it loosened from its adhesion,

even though it was not removed,

even though it has still not been entirely removed—the vessel is permitted.

If he put

burning chips,

burning splinters into the jug, and the jug became hot until the pitch was removed,

they disputed it

they disputed this

Rav Aḥa and Ravina.

One

of them

forbade

the jug, because although the pitch on the inside was removed, the heat was still not so great, and it did not make the walls of the jug glow to the extent that it would expel the wine absorbed in the earthenware.

And one

of them holds that through this

— it is permitted

the jug is permitted, because this heat is sufficient to extract the wine from its absorption in the vessel’s walls.

And the halakha—

is according to the one who forbids.

It was asked of them

they were uncertain:

what is the ruling

is it possible

to put into it

into the jug

beer,

and thereby render it fit, as putting water into it renders it fit, or not?

Rav Naḥman and Rav Yehuda—

forbid

rendering the vessel fit through beer, because it is not rendered fit in this manner,

whereas Rava—

permits,

he permitted.

Ravina permitted

he permitted

Rav Hiyya, son of Rav Yitzḥak, to put beer into it,

to put beer into the jug in order to render it fit.

He went and put wine into it.

Rav Hiyya, son of Rav Yitzḥak, went and put wine into it. And putting wine into it certainly is not effective, for wine does not nullify the wine absorbed in the walls.

And

seemingly there is here a basis to decree not to put in beer, lest they come to replace it with wine, but

even so, he did not concern himself with the matter.

Ravina did not concern himself with this and permitted putting in beer in order to remove the taste of the wine.

And his reasoning that there is no need for concern is because

he said: It is merely an incidental occurrence

it is a happenstance. And there is no need to decree on its account that one may not render [a vessel] fit through beer at all.

Rav Yitzḥak bar Bisna had

there were

those vessels of Pakusna,

vessels made from cattle dung. And there had been yayin nesekh in these vessels, and he rendered them fit in this manner:

He filled them with water,

he filled them with water,

he placed them in the sun,

he placed them in the sun. And through the heat of the sun

— they burst,

the vessels split.

Rabbi Abba said to him: You have forbidden them to yourself with an everlasting prohibition,

you have forbidden them to yourself forever. That is, you needlessly destroyed them, for

say that the Sages said

although the Sages said that rendering the vessel fit is through

filling them with water,

filling them with water, but

placing them in the sun

placing them in the sun,

who said it?

You did not need to do this and destroy them.

Rabbi Yosna said in the name of Rabbi Ami: A vessel of netar has no purification ever

from yayin nesekh absorbed in them, since they absorb a great deal. And it is impossible to extract all of it from them! The Gemara asks:

what is

what is

a vessel of netar?

Rabbi Yosei bar Avin said: A vessel

made from

the excavation of tzarif,

from earth from which they dig a material called “alum” [and it is a kind of salt], and they make vessels from it.

A man from among the people of

the house of

the household of

Parzak Rupila,

who was a gentile, the viceroy,

forcibly seized these vessels

forcibly seized these vessels from Jews

in Pumbedita.

He put wine into them,

he put wine into them, and afterward

he returned them to them,

he returned them to their owners.

They came and asked him,

the owners of the vessels came

to Rav Yehuda,

to ask what the status of these vessels was.

He said

Rav Yehuda said to them: These vessels have the status of

something into which one does not put

wine

for

the purpose of

storage

for a prolonged period

it is.

And therefore, in order to render them fit, it suffices if

he rinses them

he washes them

with water

411, and they are permitted.

Rav Avira said: These dark earthenware jugs of the Arameans,

those jugs made from the gentiles’ dark earth,

since they do not absorb

they absorbed wine

a great deal,

a lot, therefore, if one wishes to render them fit

he rinses them with water, and they are permitted.

—

he rinses them with water, and they are permitted. Rav Pappi said: These patvata,

those earthenware vessels

of the house of Mekhsei,

a place whose ground is hard,

since they do not absorb a great deal,

they do not absorb much wine; therefore, if one wishes to render them fit

— he rinses them with water, and they are permitted.

Cups,

earthenware cups into which wine is not put for a prolonged time, but from which one merely drinks,

Rav Asi forbade

these cups,

and Rav Ashi permitted

them.

And the Gemara explains:

if he drank from them

if he drank from them

an idolater the first time—

everyone does not dispute

they did not dispute

that it is forbidden,

these vessels are forbidden, because they are new and the material is still soft. Therefore, they absorb excessively. And there is no remedy for them until he puts water into them for three days.

When do they dispute

their dispute is

concerning

whether the gentile drank from them

a second time.

For then Rav Asi forbids them, and Rav Ashi permits them.

There are those who say

there are those who establish their dispute as follows: if the gentile drank

the first [או] [or]

[or]

or second time, everyone does not dispute [נחלקו] [disputed]—

[they disagreed]

that the cup is forbidden

the cup.

When do they dispute

their dispute is if the gentile drank from it only

the third time.

According to Rav Asi, even in this manner the vessel is forbidden, and according to Rav Ashi it is permitted.

And the halakha—

if the gentile drank from the cup

the first and second time—

it is forbidden.

But if he drank only

the third time—

it is permitted.

Rav Zevid said: These vessels of kunya,

earthenware vessels coated and covered with “ever” [and the vessels were in the possession of gentiles] have the following status:

If they were

white

white

or [או] [or]

[or]

black

black—

they are permitted

permitted, because the coating protects them. But if they were

green

green—

it is forbidden because it is from tzarif.

They come from the earth of tzarif mentioned above, which absorbs a great deal. Therefore, even the coating is not effective for them, and they are forbidden.

And if there are in them

and if there are in the coating of the vessels

cracks

splits and fissures,

all of them are forbidden

all are forbidden, even white or black vessels.

Marimar expounded: Kunya,

a vessel coated with ever,

whether

the vessel is

black

black and

whether

the vessel is

white

white, and

whether

the vessel is

green

green—

they are permitted

permitted.

The Gemara asks:

what is different

in what is the matter different

from leaven on Passover,

as follows:

for they asked him

they asked Marimar,

these vessels of kunya,

these coated earthenware vessels, which had leaven in them,

what is the ruling,

whether it is permitted

to use them on Passover,

to use them on Passover, or forbidden?

He answered them as follows:

green,

in a green vessel,

do not inquire of me

concerning them there is no question at all. Since

they are from tzarif

they are from the earth of tzarif

and they absorb and are forbidden,

and they absorb a great deal of the leaven that was in them, and therefore are forbidden.

When you should inquire of me

the uncertainty is concerning earthenware vessels

white

white,

and black

black—

what

is their status?

When there are cracks in them,

if there are holes and fissures in their coatings,

do not inquire of me

there is no doubt about this,

for certainly they absorb and are forbidden,

the vessels absorbed, and they are forbidden.

When you should inquire of me

the question is concerning earthenware vessels

whose coating is smooth,

whose coating is smooth,

what

will be the law concerning them? Does the smooth coating prevent absorption, or not?