Avodah Zarah 33b (לג:) — the Talmud in English

The Gemara is uncertain:

They raised a dilemma before them:

Is the permission to place fish brine and morais into these jugs permission to do so

initially, or

is it only that if one has already placed them inside, the matter is valid

after the fact?

The Gemara brings a proof to resolve this uncertainty:

Come and hear, as

he taught

Rav Zevid bar Oshaya: One who purchases jugs from gentiles.

If the jugs were

new

, he

may place wine into them.

But if the jugs were

old,

he may not place wine into them; rather, he

places fish brine and morais into them—

initially!

The Gemara thereby resolves its uncertainty.

Rabbi Yehuda Nesia raised a question before Rabbi Ami:

Jugs purchased from gentiles that had contained prohibited wine: if one

returned them to the furnace and they became glowing-hot, what is the law?

Does the glowing render them permitted?

He said to him, Rabbi Ami: Since we learned that

Rabbi Ami said: Since we learned that

brine

of fish

burns

the wine absorbed in the vessel,

fire

of the glowing process

does it not follow all the more so!?

It certainly burns it!

It was likewise stated

concerning this matter:

Rabbi Yohanan said, and some say

that this statement was

said by Rabbi Asi in the name of

Rabbi Yohanan:

Jugs belonging to gentiles that one returned to the furnace: once their pitch has melted away from them

through the fire, there is no longer wine absorbed in them, and they are

permitted.

Rav Ashi said: Do not say

, that the vessel is permitted only

once the pitch has melted away completely

, meaning that the pitch falls away entirely;

rather, even if it merely softens,

becoming loosened from its adhesion,

even though it has not melted away,

even though it has not yet fallen away completely, the vessel is permitted.

If one inserted

burning splinters

—lighted sticks—into the jug, and the jug became hot until the pitch melted,

they disagreed about it

:

Rav Aha and Ravina.

One

of them

prohibited

the jug, because although the pitch on the inside had melted, the heat was still not great enough to heat the walls of the jug to the point that the wine absorbed in the earthenware would be expelled.

And one

of them held that by this means—

it is permitted

—the jug is permitted, because this heat is sufficient to draw the wine out of its absorption in the vessel’s walls.

And the halakha is

in accordance with the one who prohibits.

They raised a dilemma before them

:

What is

the law? Is it possible

to place inside it

inside the jug

beer,

and thereby render it permissible, just as placing water inside renders it permissible, or not?

Rav Naḥman and Rav Yehuda

prohibited

rendering the vessel permissible with beer, because it is not rendered permissible in this manner,

but Rava

permitted it,

he permitted it.

Ravina permitted

him—

Rav Hiyya, son of Rav Yitzḥak, to pour beer into it,

to place beer in the jug in order to render it permissible.

He went and poured wine into it.

Rav Hiyya, son of Rav Yitzḥak, went and placed wine inside it. Placing wine inside certainly does not help, since wine does not nullify the wine absorbed in the walls.

And

although there would seemingly be reason to issue a decree not to place beer inside, lest people substitute wine for it,

even so, he did not pay heed to the matter.

Ravina was not concerned about this and permitted placing beer inside to dispel the taste of the wine.

His reasoning for not being concerned was that

he said: It is merely an incidental occurrence.

It is an isolated case, and there is no need to issue a decree because of it prohibiting all use of beer for rendering the vessel permissible.

Rav Yitzḥak bar Bisna had

some

those vessels made of pakusna,

vessels made from cattle dung. Prohibited wine had been in these vessels, and he rendered them permissible as follows:

He filled them with water,

he filled them with water,

placed them in the sun,

he put them in the sun, and through the heat of the sun

they burst,

the vessels cracked.

Rabbi Abba said to him: You have rendered them permanently prohibited,

you have made them unusable to yourself forever. In other words, you destroyed them for no reason, since

I grant that the Sages said

that the vessel is rendered permissible by

filling them with water,

filling them with water, but

placing them in the sun

—putting them in the sun—

who said that?

You should not have done this and thereby ruined them.

Rabbi Yosna said in the name of Rabbi Ami: A vessel made of natron has no purification ever

from the libation wine absorbed in it, because such vessels absorb a great deal, and it is impossible to extract all of it! The Gemara asks:

What

is

a vessel made of natron?

Rabbi Yosei bar Avin said: A vessel

made from

the excavation of tzrif,

earth dug from the ground, from which a substance called alum—similar to salt—is extracted and vessels are made.

A man from

the household

of

Parzak Rufila,

who was a gentile and a viceroy,

forcibly seized these vessels

from Jews

in Pumbedita.

He poured wine into them

, he placed wine inside them, and afterward

returned them to their owners,

he returned them to their owners.

They came and asked him

, the owners of the vessels came

to Rav Yehuda,

to ask what the status of these vessels was.

He said

to them, Rav Yehuda: The status of these vessels is like that of

an item that one does not place

wine into

for

the purpose of

long-term storage

for an extended period;

it is.

Therefore, in order to render them permissible, it suffices if one

rinses them

by washing them

with water

411 , and they are permitted.

Rav Avira said: These dark earthenware jugs of the Arameans,

those jugs made from the Arameans’ dark earth,

since they do not absorb

wine

very much,

if one wishes to render them permissible,

rinsing them with water renders them permitted.

—

Rav Pappi said: These patvata,

those earthenware vessels

of Mikhsei,

a place whose ground is hard,

since they do not absorb very much,

they do not absorb a great deal of wine, so if one wishes to render them permissible,

rinsing them with water renders them permitted.

Cups,

earthenware cups into which wine is not placed for an extended period, but from which one merely drinks,

Rav Asi prohibited

these cups,

and Rav Ashi permitted them

, he permitted them.

The Gemara explains:

If a gentile drank from them

if he drank from them

the first time—

everyone agrees

there is no dispute

that it is prohibited,

these vessels are prohibited, because they are new and the material is still soft. Consequently, they absorb excessively, and they cannot be remedied until water has been placed in them for three days.

When they disagree,

their dispute is

with regard to

whether the gentile drank from them

a second time.

In that case, Rav Asi prohibits them and Rav Ashi permits them.

There are those who say

that they establish their dispute as follows: If the gentile drank from it

the first or

second time,

everyone agrees

—there is no dispute—

that it is prohibited,

the cup is prohibited.

When they disagree

, their dispute concerns whether the gentile drank from it only

the third time.

According to Rav Asi, the vessel is prohibited even in this case, while according to Rav Ashi it is permitted.

And the halakha is that if the gentile drank from the cup

If the gentile drank from the cup

the first and second times—

it is prohibited.

But if he drank from it only

the third time—

it is permitted.

Rav Zevid said: These kunei vessels,

earthenware vessels coated and painted with lead glaze—these vessels were in the possession of gentiles—have the following status:

If they were

white

in color

or

[or]

black

in color,

they are permitted

because the coating protects them. But if they were

green

,

they are prohibited because they are made from tzrif.

They are made from the tzrif earth mentioned above, which absorbs a great deal. Therefore, even the coating does not help them, and they are prohibited.

And if they contain

cracks in the coating of the vessels,

cracks

and fissures,

all of them are prohibited

—even white or black vessels.

Marimar expounded: Kunei,

a vessel coated with lead glaze,

whether

the vessel is

black,

black,

or whether

the vessel is

white,

white,

or whether

the vessel is

green,

green—

they are permitted

, they are permitted.

The Gemara asks:

What is different

about this matter

from leaven on Passover,

as follows:

They asked him

, they asked Marimar,

about these kunei vessels,

these coated earthenware vessels, which had been used for leaven,

what is the law?

Are they permitted

to use them on Passover,

or are they prohibited?

He answered them as follows:

Green

, in the case of a green vessel,

you need not ask

; there is no question concerning them, since

they are made from tzrif

from tzrif earth,

and they absorb and are prohibited,

as they absorb a great deal of the leaven that had been in them, and therefore they are prohibited.

When you need to ask

, the question concerns earthenware vessels that are

white

in color

and black

in color—

what

is their status?

When they contain cracks,

if there are holes and fissures in the coating,

you need not ask

; there is no doubt

that they certainly absorb and are prohibited,

as the vessels absorbed the leaven and are prohibited.

When you need to ask

, the question concerns earthenware vessels

whose coating is smooth,

whose coating is intact,

what

is their status? Does the smooth coating prevent absorption, or not?