Taanit 25b — the Talmud in English

What of a date palm,

if its trunk was cut—

its trunk does not renew

[the trunk does not grow again],

so too a righteous person,

who resembles a date palm, so it is with him, that

God forbid, its trunk does not renew,

that is, after his death he does not live again at the resurrection of the dead,

therefore it is said

that the righteous person also resembles a

cedar,

whose trunk renews. For if its trunk is cut, another trunk grows beneath it.

And

if it had been said

only that he resembles a

cedar, and it had not been said

that he resembles a

date palm, I would say

as follows:

Just as a cedar—

does not produce fruit

[it does not cause fruit to grow],

so too a righteous person, God forbid, does not produce fruit,

for he has no reward in the World to Come,

therefore it is said

that he resembles a

date palm, and it is said

also that he resembles a

cedar,

to tell you that the righteous person resembles a date palm, which produces fruit, and resembles a cedar, whose trunk renews.

And the Gemara wonders:

And

the

cedar tree—

does its trunk renew?

And it was taught in a beraita: One who purchases a tree from his fellow

in order

to cut it down

[to cut it down] and to use the tree’s trunk for firewood and the like does not cut the tree’s trunk ממש close to the ground, but rather

raises it a handbreadth from the ground

[that is, he leaves a trunk one handbreadth high above the ground and does not cut it],

and

only above this place

does he cut.

For only in this manner can the trunk grow again, and the tree will again produce fruit. But if he cuts it ממש close to the ground, the trunk will not grow again.

This law was stated regarding most trees. But there are trees whose law is different:

Regarding the seasoned sycamore

[it is a sycamore tree that has already been cut several times, and therefore its trunk has become thick like an anvil]—he leaves

two handbreadths

of the trunk in the ground, and cuts the trunk above this place. For only in this manner will the trunk grow again.

Regarding the virgin sycamore

[a planting that has never been cut]—he leaves

three handbreadths

in the ground, and cuts.

Regarding reeds and vines—

he cuts only

from the joint

[it is the lowest joint in the trunk]

and above.

Regarding date palms and cedars,

not only does he not need to leave any of the trunk above the ground, but he even

digs downward

into the earth,

and uproots it

[and uproots the trunk with the roots]. And the reason is

because the trunk

of a date palm and cedar

does not renew

[change] in any case. For if they cut it, even if they do not cut all of it, but leave part connected to the ground, the trunk no longer grows anew.

It follows for us that the trunk of the cedar does not renew. And how did we say that Scripture compared the righteous person to a cedar because its trunk renews?

And the Gemara answers: In truth, the trunk of an ordinary cedar, called simply “cedar,” renews.

And

here,

here, where we learned in the beraita that the trunk of the cedar does not renew,

with what are we dealing

[what are we dealing with, what is the case]—

with the other species of cedars.

There is a cedar tree whose name is “cedar,” and its trunk renews. And there are nine other species of cedars, which have other names. And these trees—their trunks do not renew. And

in accordance with Rabba bar Huna

[as Rabba bar Huna said].

For Rava bar Huna said: There are ten species of cedars,

as it is stated: “I will set in the wilderness the cedar, the acacia, and the myrtle, and so on.”

[This is the wording of the biblical verse: “I will set in the wilderness the cedar, the acacia, and the myrtle, and I will place the oil tree in the desert; the cypress, the plane tree, and the box tree together.” Seven types of cedars are mentioned in this verse. And the Gemara in tractate Rosh Hashanah says that three more species were added to them: oaks, almug trees, and coral trees].

The Sages taught: An incident involving Rabbi Eliezer, who decreed thirteen fasts upon the community—

and

rain did not fall.

On

the fast

last

of those thirteen fasts, since they saw that until then they had not been answered,

the community began to leave

the synagogue.

He said to them

Rabbi Eliezer said to the community: Is it that you have

already prepared

for yourselves

graves?

For you will all die of hunger, God forbid!

Once the community heard these harsh words,

the entire people cried out

[shouted]

in weeping,

and

through this

rain fell.

Again, an incident involving Rabbi Eliezer, who went down before the ark

to pray on a day of a fast for rain,

and he recited

the

twenty-four

blessings

recited on a fast day—

and he was not answered.

Rabbi Akiva went down after him

before the ark,

and he said

only the following words:

“Our Father, our King, we have no king except You; our Father, our King, for Your sake have mercy upon us”

, and

immediately

rain fell.

The Sages were murmuring

[when the Sages saw this—that Rabbi Eliezer was not answered, whereas Rabbi Akiva was answered immediately—they were murmuring about Rabbi Eliezer, that he was not as great as Rabbi Akiva].

A heavenly voice went forth and said:

The reason Rabbi Akiva was answered and Rabbi Eliezer was not answered is

not because this one,

Rabbi Akiva,

is greater than that one,

Rabbi Eliezer.

Rather,

because

this one,

Rabbi Akiva,

is forbearing regarding his traits, whereas this one,

Rabbi Eliezer,

is not forbearing regarding his traits.

And therefore Rabbi Akiva was answered more than Rabbi Eliezer.

The Sages taught: Until when will the rains continue to fall, and

then will

the community cease from its fast

[stop fasting]? That is, how much rain must fall so that they will stop their fast for rain?

The beraita says: The measure is

as much as the full depth of the knee

of the plow.

That is, if the rains blurred the ground to the depth of the furrow of the plow [that is, three handbreadths].

The words of Rabbi Meir.

And the Sages say: In

ground

dry

and parched, the measure is

one handbreadth.

For if the rains penetrated to a depth of one handbreadth in dry and hard ground, it is certainly an abundance of rain.

In

ground

of medium quality,

which is not completely dry and is also not completely loose—the measure is

two handbreadths.

For if the rains penetrated to a depth of two handbreadths, it is certainly an abundance of rain.

Whereas

in

ground

worked,

plowed [“worked” means that it is cultivated]—the measure is

three handbreadths.

For if the rainwater penetrated to a depth of three handbreadths, it is certainly an abundance of rain. But if it penetrated only one or two handbreadths, this is not an abundance of rain, because since the ground is cultivated and loose, the water penetrates it easily.

It was taught: Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar says: There is no handbreadth

of rainwater that comes

from above, for which

water of

the depths rises

and surges

toward it

to a height of

three handbreadths.

And the Gemara asks:

But it was taught

[and yet we learned] that the water of the depths rises toward the handbreadth that comes from above

two handbreadths!

And the Gemara answers:

It is not difficult.

Here,

where we learned in the beraita that the water of the depths rises toward it two handbreadths, this refers to

ground

that is

worked.

Since this is so, since the ground is plowed and loose, abundant rain is not needed for it to penetrate one handbreadth into the ground. Therefore, since abundant rain did not fall, the water of the depths rises toward it only two handbreadths.

Whereas

here,

where we learned that the water of the depths rises toward it three handbreadths, this refers to

ground

that

is not worked.

Since the ground is hard and dry, much rain is needed to penetrate one handbreadth into the ground; therefore the water of the depths rises toward it three handbreadths.

Rabbi Elazar said: When they pour the water

on the Festival

of Sukkot,

the depths say to one another: Release your waters

[an expression of flowing; that is, release your waters], because

I hear the sound of two companions.

That is, the pouring of the water and the pouring of the wine.

As it is stated: “Deep calls to deep at the sound of Your channels, and so on.”

That is, the upper waters call to the lower waters and say that they hear the sound of those two cups of pouring: the pouring of the water and the pouring of the wine.

Rabba said: I myself saw that ridya

[I myself saw that angel appointed over the rains, whose name is “ridya”],

resembles a calf

[it resembles a calf],

and its lips are split

[and its lips are spread and cracked],

and it stands between

the lower depths and the upper depths

[and it stands between the upper depths, the firmament, and the lower depths, the ocean, at the place where the firmament and the ocean touch].

And this is what that angel does:

To the upper depths

[to the upper depths], to the firmament,

he says to it

[the angel says to it]:

“Hold back your waters”

[release them, lower your waters to the ground].

Whereas

to the lower depths

[to the lower depths], to the ocean,

he says to it

[the angel says to it]:

“Release your waters”

[release your waters onto the surface of the earth].

As it is stated: “The blossoms have appeared in the land, and so on.”

[And the end of the verse is: “The time of singing has arrived, and the voice of the turtledove is heard in our land.”]

And this is how they expound the verse: “The blossoms have appeared in the land”—that is, when those two pourings, which resemble blossoms, appeared in the land. Just as blossoms come only from year to year, so the pourings come only once a year, on the Festival of Sukkot. “

The time of singing has arrived,” that is, the songs of the Festival—

then “the voice of the turtledove,” the voice of the angel that resembles an ox [as we said above, that this angel resembles a calf; and the translation of ox is “tura”], is heard in our land. For it says to the upper depths, “Hold back your waters,” and to the lower depths, “Release your waters”.

We learned in our Mishna:

If they were fasting and rain fell before sunrise, and so on.

The Sages taught: If they were fasting, and rain fell for them

on their fast day,

if the rain fell

before sunrise—

the community does not complete

its fast. For the rain fell before the fast had taken effect upon them at all [because the fast begins only at the time of sunrise].

But if the rain fell

after sunrise,

when the fast had already taken effect upon them, even partially—

they complete

their fast.

The words of Rabbi Meir.

Rabbi Yehuda says:

If the rain fell

before midday

of the day, which is the time of the meal,

they do not complete

their fast. Since it fell before the time of the meal, it is not yet apparent that the fast had taken effect upon them, for the fact that they had not eaten until then was because the usual time for eating had not yet arrived.

But if the rain fell

after midday

of the day, when it was already apparent that the fast had taken effect upon them, for they had not eaten the fixed meal at midday—

they complete

their fast.

Rabbi Yosei says:

If the rain fell

before the ninth hour

of the day—

they do not complete

their fast. For there are people, such as the sons of kings, who do not eat their meal until the ninth hour. For they sleep until the third hour of the day in their beds. Afterwards, when they rise from their beds, they wait six hours—and then they eat. And since this is so, until the ninth hour it is still not apparent that the fast had taken effect.

But if the rains fell

after nine hours,

when the time of the meal of everyone had already passed, and even that of the sons of kings, and it was apparent to all that the fast had been accepted

they shall complete

their fast.

For thus we find with Ahab, king of Israel ,

who fasted from the ninth hour onward. As it is stated, when Elijah the prophet came to him after he had killed Naboth the Jezreelite and said to him, “Have you murdered and also inherited, and so forth? In the place where the dogs licked the blood of Naboth, the dogs shall lick your blood also, you as well”: “And it came to pass when Ahab heard these words, that he tore his garments, and placed sackcloth upon his flesh, and he fasted, and so forth,” and it is stated afterward that the Holy One, blessed be He, said to Elijah

“Have you seen that Ahab has humbled himself, and so forth?” .

Rabbi Judah the Prince decreed a fast [

Rabbi Judah the Prince decreed a fast because the rains had not fallen],

and rains fell for them after sunrise.

He thought

Rabbi Judah

to complete it [

to complete the fast].

Rabbi Ami said to him:

Behold,

“Before midday” and “after midday” we have learned!

That is to say, if the rains fell before midday, they shall not complete their fast, and only if they fell after midday shall they complete it. But the rains fell after sunrise, before midday; and if so, there is no need to complete the fast!

The Gemara further relates:

Shmuel the Lesser

decreed a fast

because the rains had not fallen,

and rains fell for them before sunrise.

They thought

the

people would say

that the fact that rains fell before sunrise, even before they had begun to fast

is the praise of the community.

For they had still not managed to pray, and already they were answered from Heaven, and rains fell .

He said to them,

Shmuel the Lesser:

“I shall give you a parable. To what is this matter comparable?” —

To a servant who requests a portion [

a gift]

from his master [

from his lord], but has still not come before his master to request his request.

When the master heard about this,

he said

to his servants:

Give him

the servant immediately what he requests, and let him go from here,

“and let me not hear his voice,”

for I do not love him, and I do not want to hear him.

So too here, the Holy One, blessed be He, answered immediately and brought down rains even before the community began to pray, so that He would not hear their words and their prayer.

If so, the matter is not praise for the community, but, on the contrary—it is disgrace for them!

Again

there was an incident involving

Shmuel the Lesser,

who

decreed a fast, and rains fell for them after sunset.

That is to say, with the conclusion of the fast.

They thought

the

people would say

now that surely

it is the praise of the community.

For behold, the Holy One, blessed be He, waited until they had finished fasting and praying, and only afterward did the rains fall. It follows that the Holy One, blessed be He, wished to hear the prayer of the people.

Shmuel said to them: It is not the praise of the community .

Rather, I shall give you a parable. To what is this matter comparable? —

To a servant who requests a portion from his master.

To a servant who requests a portion from his master.

The master wanted to cause his servant distress,

and

therefore

the master said

to his servants: Do not give it to him immediately, but

wait for him [

let him wait] a long time,

until he wastes away

and suffers, and

only

afterward give it to him.

So too here, the Holy One, blessed be He, answered only at the end of the day of the fast, so that the people would waste away and suffer all day through fasting and the fast.

And the Gemara asks: A

ccording to the method of

Shmuel the Lesser,

that whether the Holy One, blessed be He, answered immediately at the beginning of the day, this is not the praise of the community, and whether He answered at the end of the day, this is not the praise of the community,

“the praise of the community”—

what are its circumstances,

in what manner will the people be answered, so that we will know that the Holy One, blessed be He, desired them and their prayer?!

And the Gemara explains: In a manner in which

the community said

the

“Who makes the wind blow,”

and

immediately afterward

the wind blew [

the wind blew].

The community

said

“Who makes the rain fall,” —

and

immediately afterward

the rain came [

the rain came]. In such a manner it is proven that the Holy One, blessed be He, desired their prayer.

For this reason He waited for them until they prayed, and did not bring down the rain earlier, because He wished to hear their prayer. And, on the other hand, He did not wait until the end of the day, until they would waste away in their suffering; rather, He brought down the rain for them immediately.

We learned in our Mishna:

“It happened that they decreed a fast in Lod, and so forth” [

the continuation of the Mishna’s words: “And rains fell for them before midday. Rabbi Tarfon said to them: Go out and eat and drink and make the day a festival. And they went out and ate and drank and made the day a festival, and in the late afternoon they came and recited the Great Hallel] .

And the Gemara asks: Why did they first go home and eat and drink, and only afterward return to the synagogue and recite Hallel?

“And let them recite Hallel at the outset” [

that they should recite Hallel initially, while they were still in the synagogue in their fast]!