Shabbat 77a — the Talmud in English

Rava said: We too ![](pamud.bmp "

Exact folio location")

have learned

like Rav Naḥman.

For we learned in the Mishna:

One who carries out wine, the amount for mixing the cup.

And it was taught concerning it: The amount for mixing a proper cup.

And it teaches in the final clause

of the Mishna

“And all the other liquids” —

“a quarter.”

Thus, with regard to liquids fit for drinking, we require a quarter. And necessarily, wine too, its measure with regard to carrying out is wine fit for drinking a quarter, that is, there must be in it a quarter of a quarter of wine so that after its being mixed with water it reaches the measure of a quarter [and as Rava explains below, Rava holds that this is the order of mixing].

And since we have said that this is the mixing of a cup of blessing, conclude from it as Rav Naḥman said in the name of Rabbah bar Avuha: a cup of blessing requires a fourth of a quarter, so that he may mix it and it will stand at a quarter.

And Rava

goes

according to his reasoning.

For Rava said: Any wine

wine

that does not bear

that one does not add to it, when mixing it with water,

one

part of wine

three

parts

of water —

is not wine.

Abaye said: There are two answers

I have to say

to the matter:

One: For we learned

in tractate Niddah that there is a menstrual-blood appearance resembling mixed wine. And the Mishna explains:

“And the mixed,”

that is,

two parts water and one part wine, of Sharonite wine,

which grew in a country whose name was Sharon.

It follows that the order of mixing is one to two. And if so, with regard to carrying out, there must be in it a third of a quarter of wine. And the same is true with regard to a cup of blessing. And not like Rav Naḥman!

And furthermore,

an answer to your words, for you say that in essence the measure for carrying out wine is a quarter, like all liquids, except that we combine with it the water that he is destined to add to it.

But are

water

placed

in a jug

without his carrying them out,

and

nevertheless they are

combined

with the measure of the wine, to make him liable for carrying out the wine?! Yet when he carried out the wine, the water was not yet in it; how can he be liable for carrying it out?

Rather, necessarily, the liability is for carrying out the wine as it is, since the measure of wine is not like that of the other liquids; rather, even with less than a quarter, since it is important, for it is fit for a cup of blessing [through adding water].

And if so, there is no proof from here with regard to the measure of a cup of blessing. For it is possible that even after the mixing it is still less than a quarter.

Rava said to him: That which you said

to prove from the Mishna that

two parts water and one part wine, of Sharonite wine,

are the measure for mixing wine — this is not difficult.

For

Sharonite wine alone

is that concerning which it is required that they not add to it more than two parts of water, because

it is weak,

for it is weak wine. But to ordinary wine they add three parts of water.

Alternatively, there —

is because of appearance!

For the tannai does not intend to say that this is the manner of mixing wine, but rather to say that by mixing in such a ratio, a red appearance is produced which, in menstrual blood, is an impure appearance. But if he adds more water to it, the appearance of its redness becomes weaker, so that if a woman sees blood with this weak appearance, she does not become impure with menstrual impurity.

But with regard to taste,

for the ordinary mixing, which they do so that the wine will receive an appropriate taste,

it requires more

water, and there must be three parts of water in it.

And

this

that you said

to raise the objection: But are

water in a jug, and are they combined

to make one liable for carrying out?!

One can say:

With regard to Shabbat —

we require something important.

And this too,

wine in a measure with which it is possible to mix three parts of water,

is important!

For since the wine stands to have water added to it and to bring it to a quarter, it already has from now the importance of a quarter. And in any event, with wine too, its measure with regard to carrying out is a quarter.

And if so, it is also proven with regard to a cup of blessing that its measure is a quarter.

The tannai:

wine

that is dry,

congealed — its measure with regard to carrying out is

an olive-bulk.

For an olive-bulk of congealed wine contains a quarter of wine. For wine contracts when it congeals, and from a quarter of wine only an olive-bulk remains [an olive-bulk is half an egg or one third of an egg. And a quarter is one and a half eggs].

And since congealed wine is not fit for mixing, we require that there be in it a full quarter of wine,

the words of Rabbi Natan.

Rav Yosef said: Rabbi Natan and Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda —

said one matter,

that a quarter of liquid contracts into an olive-bulk when congealed.

Rabbi Natan —

this that we said.

And Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda —

this is

as it was taught: Rabbi Yehuda says:

There are

six things

that are

among the leniencies of the House of Shammai and the stringencies of the House of Hillel.

For the House of Hillel are stringent and the House of Shammai are lenient in them.

[And in tractate Eduyot there are many other things concerning which tannaim testified that they are among the leniencies of the House of Shammai and the stringencies of the House of Hillel, and concerning six things Rabbi Yehuda testified.]

And this is one of them:

The blood of an unslaughtered carcass —

the House of Shammai declare pure,

because the blood is not considered flesh that becomes impure as an unslaughtered carcass.

And the House of Hillel declare impure,

because the blood is considered flesh.

Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda said: Even when the House of Hillel declared it impure, they declared impure only blood in which there is a quarter, since it can congeal and stand at an olive-bulk.

For since the blood renders impure in the status of flesh, there must be in it the measure of flesh that renders impure as an unslaughtered carcass, namely, an olive-bulk.

It follows that Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda also holds like Rabbi Natan, that a quarter contracts into an olive-bulk.

And we reject this:

Abaye said: Perhaps it is not so,

but it is possible that Rabbi Natan and Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda do not agree with one another.

For

Rabbi Natan said here only that a quarter is required

so that after it congeals an olive-bulk will remain [for he said that an olive-bulk of dry material is sufficient for carrying out because it comes from a quarter of wine]

only with wine, which is thin,

for it is diluted while it is liquid, and its volume is large. Therefore, when it dries, it contracts greatly and reaches an olive-bulk.

But with blood, which is thick,

and therefore its volume does not change so much when it dries, in order to reach the measure of

an olive-bulk

congealed —

it does not require a quarter

of liquid, but even with less than a quarter of liquid it becomes an olive-bulk when congealed. Therefore, the blood of unslaughtered carcasses renders impure even with less than a quarter.

And it follows that Rabbi Natan does not hold like Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda.

Alternatively, Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda said there only

with regard to blood,

that an olive-bulk

of congealed blood

is sufficient for it with a quarter

of liquid blood,

but with blood

because it is

thick,

and its volume is contracted.

But wine, which is thin,

since it is diluted and its volume is large,

an olive-bulk

of congealed wine

is more than a quarter

of liquid. For in order to reach an olive-bulk of dry wine, more than a quarter of liquid is required. And from here, a quarter of liquid wine that congeals is less than an olive-bulk.

Therefore,

when he carries out

even

less than an olive-bulk

of congealed wine,

he should be liable,

for there is here the measure of a quarter of liquid wine, which is the measure for carrying out wine, and not like Rabbi Natan.

We learned in the Mishna:

Milk, the amount of a swallow.

They raised a question before them:

How do we read it? Is it

the amount of a swallowing

with an alef,

or the amount of a swallowing

with an ayin?

Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak

said: It is stated

“Please let me swallow a little water from your jug,”

with an alef.