Sanhedrin 69b (סט:) — the Talmud in English

And indeed, with regard to the third law it is stated: “And they are liable on her account for adultery.”

And

it is difficult:

Why? Say

that one should be concerned

perhaps she is an

aylonit

[a woman incapable of bearing children]

and

the betrothal with which her father betrothed her to another is a mistaken betrothal, because

with the stipulation

that she is unable to give birth,

he did not betroth

[as is the law when it is discovered that his wife is an aylonit (Yevamot 2)] and she is not a married woman.

Granted, if in capital cases we follow the majority—for the majority of women are not ayloniyot—then her betrothal is a valid betrothal, and they are liable on her account for adultery. But if we do not follow the majority, why should the one who has intercourse with her be liable to execution? [Granted, with regard to another married woman, it could be said that one is liable to execution only if it has become clear that she is not an aylonit, since she has already given birth; but with a minor, this cannot be said].

Rather,

is it

not

because

we say: Follow the majority, and the majority of women are not ayloniyot?

And the Gemara rejects this:

No,

there is no proof from here. In truth, it is possible that in capital cases we do not follow the majority, and indeed this is not a capital case.

And what

is the meaning of

“liable on her account”

which it teaches

in the Mishna?

A sin-offering

if he had intercourse with her unwittingly, as with all those liable to karet. With regard to the laws of offerings, we follow the majority, unlike capital cases, in which we do not follow the majority.

We raise an objection to this rejection: Is it not stated in the Mishna, with regard to the seventh law: “If one of all the forbidden relations mentioned in the Torah has intercourse with her,

they are executed on her account”—

does it teach this?

This includes as well those forbidden to her on account of her betrothal, such as her father-in-law and her husband’s son, and they would execute him for intercourse with her, despite the possibility that her betrothal is a mistaken betrothal, as stated above.

This indicates that we follow the majority in capital cases.

And we answer: It does not refer to those forbidden to her on account of her betrothal, but rather

when he has intercourse with

her actual relatives, such as

her father,

and he is liable to execution solely because she is three years old and fit for intercourse—not because of her marriage.

We raise an objection:

But—

“if one has intercourse with one of

all

the forbidden relations,” does it teach?!

It does not refer specifically to her own relatives.

Rather,

the Gemara retracts this rejection:

Nevertheless, one cannot compel the conclusion from this Mishna that we follow the majority in capital cases, because

with what are we dealing here?

The Mishna is speaking of a case in which even if she is found to be an aylonit, her betrothal would not be a mistaken betrothal. This is possible in a case

where he accepted her upon himself,

where her husband, when he betrothed her, accepted upon himself that the betrothal was conclusive, and desired her even if she were found to be an aylonit.

According to this rejection, they are liable to execution on her account only in such a case. Ordinarily, however, they are indeed not liable to execution, because perhaps she will be found to be an aylonit, and in capital cases we do not follow the majority.

The Gemara returns to discuss whether a minor can father a child.

The Sages taught:

A woman

who engages in licentious play

[an expression of promiscuity] with

her minor son, and he performs incomplete intercourse with her

the minor performed ha'ara'a, the initial stage of intercourse.

Beit Shammai say:

His intercourse is considered intercourse, and even if she is not liable to execution—for example, the witnesses did not warn her—in any event

it disqualifies her from the priesthood

as the law concerning a woman who is a zona.

And Beit Hillel deem her fit

for the priesthood, because intercourse with a minor is not considered intercourse.

With what minor are we dealing?

Rav Hiyya, son of Rabba bar Naḥmani, said in the name of Rav Ḥisda.

And some say

that there was one who transmitted this teaching:

Rav Ḥisda said in the name of Ze'iri:

Everyone agrees—

with regard to a boy of nine years and one day, that his intercourse is considered intercourse,

and this is an explicit Mishna (Nidda 45), which is a continuation of the Mishna cited above: “A minor who is three years old.”

Likewise, everyone agrees—

with regard to one younger than eight, that his intercourse is not considered intercourse,

as we find no proof of the contrary.

They disagree

Beit Shammai and Beit Hillel

only with regard to a boy of eight.

For Beit Shammai hold: We derive

learn

from the earlier generations

that they fathered children at eight years of age, as the Gemara will prove.

And Beit Hillel hold: We do not derive from the earlier generations.

The Gemara explains:

And from where do we know that the earlier generations fathered children,

where do we find that the earlier generations fathered children at eight years of age?

The Gemara brings proofs from the account of Bathsheba, in which several generations succeeded one another within a short period; from the calculation it emerges that they fathered children at eight.

The sequence of events:

It is stated in the Book of Samuel that King David saw Bathsheba from the roof of his house and married her. The Lord sent Nathan the prophet to David and said to him: “I will raise evil against you from your house”; and indeed, several years later, his son Absalom rebelled against him.

And two years before Absalom killed Amnon—which led Absalom to rebel—Bathsheba’s son Jedidiah, namely Solomon, was born.

Ahithophel, who was David’s counselor, joined Absalom in his rebellion. Ultimately, after Hushai the Archite thwarted Ahithophel’s counsel, he strangled himself and died.

This Ahithophel was the father of Eliam, and Eliam was the father of Bathsheba, Solomon’s mother.

It follows that three generations were born to Ahithophel before his death. [The calculation of the years will be explained below.]

If you wish to say,

if you would say,

from what is written (chapter 18): King David sent to inquire who Bathsheba was. They answered him:

Is this not Bathsheba, daughter of Eliam, wife of Uriah the Hittite?”

And who was that “Eliam”? In the chapter (23) listing David’s mighty men,

it is written: “Eliam son of Ahithophel the Gilonite.”

The Gemara now explains how old Solomon was at the time of Absalom’s rebellion.

And it is written: “

And she bore a son, and he called his name Solomon, and the Lord loved him.

And He sent by the hand of Nathan the prophet, and called his name Jedidiah, for the sake of the Lord.”

Solomon’s birth (chapter 12) occurred before Absalom killed Amnon.

And

so

it is written (chapter 13):

And it came to pass after two years, that they were shearing for Absalom,”

and Absalom’s young men killed Amnon.

As a result, Absalom fled to Geshur. How long did he remain in Geshur?

And it is written (there),

“

And Absalom fled and went to Geshur, and he was there three years.”

After three years of exile, David brought him back, following Joab’s advice, who sent the wise woman of Tekoa; yet although he brought him back, he did not meet with the king.

How long did Absalom remain in Jerusalem from his return until his rebellion?

And it is written (chapter 14):

And then the rebellion broke out—

And it is written (chapter 15):

“And it came to pass at the end of forty years

”

[from the time that the Israelites asked the prophet Samuel to appoint a king over them]

“that Absalom said to the king: Let me go, I pray you, and pay my vow which I have vowed to the Lord in Hebron.”

And he rebelled.

And it is written (chapter 17):

[At that time Solomon was seven years old. How so? Two years until Amnon was killed, three years of Absalom’s stay in Geshur, and two years of his residence in Jerusalem—there are seven years.]

How old was Ahithophel when he died?

And it is written

in Psalms (55), in the chapter in which King David laments having been driven from Jerusalem because of his enemies, and says there concerning Ahithophel: “But it was you, a man of my standing, my companion and confidant, with whom together we took sweet counsel in the house of God, walking amid the throng.” And at the end of the chapter he curses them and says:

“

Men of blood and deceit shall not live out half their days”

they will not reach half their days.

And indeed, the Holy One, blessed be He, heard his prayer, and his enemies, men of blood and deceit, did not reach half their days, which is seventy years, as it is stated (Psalms 90): “The days of our years among them are seventy years.”

And it was taught: All the years of Doeg

the Edomite, who informed Saul against David,

were only thirty-four, and those of Ahithophel

who betrayed David and joined Absalom,

were only thirty-three.

thirty-three,

We now arrive at the calculation of the years. In thirty-three years, three generations were born to Ahithophel, and Solomon—the third generation—was seven years old at the time of Ahithophel’s death, as stated above.

How many

years

did Ahithophel have to his life—

Ahithophel lived

thirty-three

thirty-three,

subtract

remove from them

seven

years,

which Solomon was

at the time of his death.

There remain

there remain

twenty-six

twenty-six years.

Subtract

remove from them

two years

two years

for three pregnancies

for the three gestation periods of the three generations. How so?

Even if we allot them the gestation period of a woman who gives birth after seven months, and for each new pregnancy the days of menstruation and the days of ritual purity, together they amount to three times eight, or twenty-four months—two years—for three pregnancies.

There remain twenty-four years for three generations;

it emerges

the calculation

that each one

of them—Ahithophel had Eliam, Eliam had Bathsheba, and Bathsheba had Solomon—

fathered at eight

fathered a child at the age of eight.

And this is the proof that the earlier generations fathered children at eight.

The Gemara does not accept this proof—

From where

is this proof derived?

Perhaps

it is possible that

both of them

Ahithophel and Eliam

at

the age of

nine fathered children, and

what emerged for you from the calculation—that three generations were born within twenty-four years—is because

Bathsheba gave birth

to Solomon

at

the age of

six

six years?

And why do we prefer to say this?

Because a woman is healthy

a woman is normally healthy and quick to conceive.

Know

that a woman is quick to conceive,

for she already had a child previously,

for she bore a child before Solomon, the child who died (chapter 12). Thus, she had given birth earlier.

Rather,

the Gemara brings another proof that the earlier generations fathered children at eight.

From here.

It is stated in the Torah (Genesis 11):

“These are the generations of Terah: Terah fathered Abram, Nahor, and Haran.” And

according to the order in which they are listed, it indicates that

Abraham was older than Nahor

by at least

a year, and Nahor was older than Haran

by at least

a year; it follows that Abraham was older

by at least

two years than Haran—

And

it is further written (there):

“And Abram and Nahor took wives for themselves; the name of Abram’s wife was Sarai”—

And whose daughter was Sarai?

It is stated later in that verse: “And the name of Nahor’s wife was Milcah, daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah and the father of Iscah.”

And Rabbi Yitzḥak said: Iscah—

this is Sarah. And why was she called Iscah? Because she gazed

she saw

through the divine spirit, and this is what is written (there, 21):

“Whatever Sarah says to you, heed her voice”

and it does not say, “heed her,” but rather, “heed her voice,” meaning the voice of the divine spirit within her. This teaches that Abraham was subordinate to Sarah in prophecy.

Alternatively:

Why was she called

“

Iscah”:

because everyone gazed

looked

at her beauty,

Pharaoh and Abimelech.

And

by how many years was Abraham older than Sarah, the daughter of his brother Haran?

And it is written (there, 17):

“And Abraham fell upon his face and laughed, and said in his heart: Shall a child be born to one who is a hundred years old?

And shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, give birth?!”

And we arrive at the calculation:

How much older was Abraham than Sarah?

Ten years. And

how much

was he

older than her father,

her father Haran?

Two years.

It emerges

it is found:

when Haran fathered Sarah—

he fathered her at eight

he fathered her when he was eight years old.

This is proof that the earlier generations fathered children at eight.

The Gemara does not accept this proof.

From where

did you derive this calculation?

Perhaps Abraham was the youngest of his brothers

he was the youngest of the brothers, and his brother Haran was older than he; therefore, Haran did not father Sarah when he was eight.

And

why was Abraham listed first? Not because he was the eldest of the brothers, but rather:

according to their wisdom

according to their importance

it lists them,

because he was the most important among them.

The Gemara brings proof that the verses sometimes list people according to their order of importance, and not according to their ages.

Know, for the verse lists them according to their wisdom—

As it is written (Genesis 6):

“And Noah was five hundred years old, and Noah fathered Shem, Ham, and Japheth.”

Seemingly, if we say that they were listed according to their ages, it indicates:

Shem was older than Ham by one year, and Ham was older than Japheth by one year; it follows that Shem was older than Japheth by two years.

Is this possible?

And

is it not

written (there, 7):

“And Noah was six hundred years old, and the Flood was upon the earth.”

And

it is further

written (there, 11):

“These are the generations of Shem: Shem was one hundred years old, and fathered Arpachshad two years after the Flood.”

Was Shem

one hundred years old

two years after the Flood? Surely, if Shem was the eldest of Noah’s sons, he was born one hundred years before the Flood; it follows that two years after the Flood

he was one hundred and two years old

he was one hundred and two years old?!

Rather,

you are forced to answer that Shem was not the eldest of Noah’s sons, and he was not born one hundred years before the Flood, but rather ninety-eight years before the Flood. The reason he was listed first is that

it lists them according to their wisdom—

here too,

with regard to Abraham and his brothers,

it lists them according to their wisdom.

Here too,

Rav Kahana said: I stated this teaching

I stated this tradition

before before

Rav Zevid of Nehardea.

He said to me

Rav Zevid:

You

you

learn it for them from here

you learned from this calculation that Shem was not the eldest of Noah’s sons,

but

if

we

we

learn it from here

from this verse

we learn it

we learned this:

It is stated (there, 10): “

And to Shem, to him also, were children born, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder,”

which shows that

Japheth was the eldest of his brothers.

Rather, from where do we know

that the earlier generations fathered children at eight?

From here.

The Gemara brings proof from the years of Caleb.

It is written in the section concerning the construction of the Tabernacle (Exodus 38): “

And Bezalel son of Uri, son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah.” “

Hur” was Caleb’s son,

and

so

it is written (I Chronicles 2):

“And Azubah died, and Caleb took for himself Ephrath, and she bore him Hur.”

We now arrive at the calculation.

And when Bezalel made the Tabernacle, how old was he?

How old was Bezalel when he made the Tabernacle—

Thirteen

thirteen years old,

as it is written (there): “

Every man from his work, which they were doing,”

and a man

is called a man “at least” from the age of thirteen.

as it is written

there:

“Every man from his work, which they were doing,”

and a “man” is called at least thirteen years old.