Rosh Hashanah 18b — the Talmud in English

For Rav Hana bar Bizna said in the name of Rabbi Shimon Hasida: What is the meaning of that which is written [

Zechariah 8 ]:

“So said the Lord of Hosts: The fast

of the fourth month

and the fast

of the fifth month

and the fast

of the seventh month

and the fast

of the tenth month

shall be for the house of Judah for joy and gladness

”.

And this is difficult: On the one hand,

it calls them—

the verse calls these days

a fast, and

on the other hand, it

calls them joy and gladness!

And how are these two matters reconciled?

Rather, this is the meaning of the verse:

When there is peace,

when the hand of the gentiles does not rule over Israel —

these days shall be

these days

for joy and gladness,

and eulogies and fasting are prohibited on them.

But

in

a time when

there is no peace—

they shall be

a fast.

And from here it follows that we fast on the seventeenth of Tammuz, which is the fast of the fourth month [from Nisan], and likewise on the tenth of Tevet, which is the fast of the tenth month [from Nisan].

And if so: Why do the messengers not go out to the Diaspora concerning them?

Rav Pappa said: This is what

Rabbi Shimon Hasida

said:

A. When there is peace—

they shall be for joy and gladness.

B. At a time when

there is a decree of

religious persecution by

the kingdom —

the days shall be

a fast,

and there is an obligation to fast on them.

C. At a time when

there is no decree of the kingdom and there is no peace:

If they wish—

they fast; if they wish

not to fast—

they do not fast.

And since at a time when there is no decree of religious persecution there is no obligation to fast, therefore they do not trouble themselves to send messengers concerning them.

And we raise an objection:

If so,

if indeed the meaning of the verse is that at a time when there is no decree of religious persecution and there is no peace, fasting is optional, and for this reason they did not send messengers, then there is a difficulty:

the Ninth of Av also—

messengers should not have gone out concerning it, for fasting on it is optional at this time!

He said,

he answered,

Rav Pappa: The Ninth of Av is different

[it is different]

from the Ninth of Av

than the other fasts,

since many

great

calamities

occurred on it, for the Master said: On the Ninth of Av, the Temple was destroyed the first time

the First Temple,

and the second time

the Second Temple,

and Beitar was captured, and the city was plowed under

Jerusalem.

And even though four calamities also occurred on the seventeenth of Tammuz, nevertheless the destruction of the Temple is a very great calamity.

It was taught in a beraita: Rabbi Shimon said: Rabbi Akiva would expound four matters, and I do not expound in accordance with him:

A.

“The fast of the fourth month”

that was mentioned in the verse—

this is the ninth of Tammuz, on which the city was breached

Jerusalem.

As it is said [

Jeremiah 52 ]:

“In the fourth month, on the ninth of the month, the famine grew strong in the city, and there was no bread for the people of the land, and the city was breached.”

And why does

the verse call it “the

fourth

month”? Because it is in the

fourth month of the months,

which begin to be counted from Nisan.

B.

“The fast of the fifth month”

that was mentioned in the verse—

this is the Ninth of Av, on which the Temple of our God was burned.

And why does it call it “fifth”?

Because it is the

fifth month of the months.

C.

“The fast of the seventh month”—

this is the third of Tishrei, on which Gedaliah son of Ahikam was killed.

And who killed him?

Ishmael son of Nethaniah killed him!

And since they fast over the killing of the righteous Gedaliah, just as they fast over the burning of the Temple, this serves

to teach you that the death of the righteous is equivalent to the burning of the Temple of our God!

And why does it call it

the verse

“seventh”?

Because it is in the

seventh

month of the months.

D.

“The fast of the tenth month”—

this is the tenth of Tevet, on which the king of Babylon encamped

and besieged

against

the walls of

Jerusalem.

As it is said [

Ezekiel 24 ]:

“And the word of the Lord came to me in the ninth year, in the tenth month

[Tevet],

on the tenth of the month, saying: Son of man, write for yourself the name of the day, the very day itself; the king of Babylon has encamped against Jerusalem

[to besiege it].”

And why does it call it

the verse

“tenth”?

Because it is

the tenth of the months.

But surely this should have been written

the fast of the tenth of Tevet

first

in the order of the verse, for it was first in the order of the events,

and why was it written here

last?

In order to arrange the months in their proper order.

So that the fasts would be arranged according to the order of the months in which they occur.

Up to here are the words of Rabbi Akiva.

And Rabbi Shimon said about this:

But I do not say so.

Rather,

this is what I say concerning “the fast of the tenth month”:

“The fast of the tenth month”—

this is the fifth of Tevet, on which there came

[there came]

the report to the Diaspora that the city had been struck,

and the Temple had been burned.

As it is said [

Ezekiel 33 ]:

“And it came to pass in the twelfth

year, in the tenth month

[Tevet],

on the fifth of the month, of our exile

[that is, in the twelfth year of our exile],

the fugitive came to me from Jerusalem, saying: The city has been struck!”

And they made

the

day

of the

report

a day of fasting,

in the

manner in which they made the

day

of the

burning,

that is, the Ninth of Av.

And Rabbi Shimon adds and says:

And the words of

my opinion appear

more than his words!

For I say regarding

the

first

fast that was written in Scripture, namely the fast of the seventeenth of Tammuz, that it is

first

in the order of the calamities.

For at first, on the seventeenth of Tammuz, the city was breached. And afterward, on the Ninth of Av, the Temple was burned. And afterward, on the third of Tishrei, Gedaliah was killed. And in the Tevet that followed, the report came to the Diaspora.

And regarding

the

last

fast mentioned in the verse, namely the fast of the fifth of Tevet,

I say that this is the last

in the order of the calamities.

And

if

he,

Rabbi Akiva,

were to say regarding

the fast mentioned in Scripture

first,

the seventeenth of Tammuz, that it is

last

in the order of the calamities,

and regarding

the fast mentioned

last,

namely the tenth of Tevet, he would say that it is

first

in the order of the calamities, for on it the king of Babylon besieged Jerusalem, and only afterward, on the seventeenth of Tammuz, the city was breached.

Rather, he,

Rabbi Akiva, says that the verse

counts

the fasts

according

to

the order of the months.

And I count

also

according to the order of the calamities.

The Gemara said above that when there is peace, these four fasts are for joy and gladness. That is to say, eulogies and fasting are prohibited on them, whereas when there is no peace, these days are fasts.

And in connection with this, the Gemara discusses all the “good days” on which fasting is prohibited because miracles occurred on them, and some of them are prohibited even with regard to eulogies—and they are detailed in the scroll called “the Scroll of Fasts.” -

Does the law of these days lapse nowadays, when the Temple is destroyed and there is no peace?

It was stated: Rav and Rabbi Hanina say: The Scroll of Fasts lapsed

when the Temple was destroyed, and the good days enumerated in it became permitted with regard to eulogies and fasting.

Rabbi Yohanan and Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi say: The Scroll of Fasts did not lapse.

And the Gemara explains their reasons:

Rav and Rabbi Hanina say: The Scroll of Fasts lapsed,

because

this is what

the verse says concerning the fasts established in remembrance of the destruction of the First Temple:

When there is peace, the fasts shall be

the fasts

for joy and gladness.

And nevertheless, when

there is no peace,

it is

a fast.

And these also,

the other days that were established during the time of the Second Temple in the Scroll of Fasts as “good days” for joy and gladness, on which fasting and eulogies are prohibited—

like these,

their law is also like the law of these four fasts, which were called “good days” during the time of the Second Temple, and when the Temple was destroyed their joy lapsed.

Whereas

Rabbi Yohanan and Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi say: The Scroll of Fasts did not lapse,

because only

these

these fasts

are the ones that the Merciful One suspended,

the verse suspended only them

upon the building of the Temple.

Initially they were established as days of fasting for the destruction of the Temple, and through the building of the Temple they were established as a good day. For when the Temple was built, the people of the Diaspora asked whether they should continue to fast, and the prophet Zechariah answered them [Zechariah 7] that from then on these days would be for joy and gladness and for appointed festivals.

But these,

the other days mentioned in the Scroll of Fasts—the verse did not suspend them upon the building of the Temple, but rather

as they stood, so they stand!

Just as they stood under the prohibition of eulogy and fasting when the Temple existed, so they remain under their prohibition today as well.

Rav Kahana raised an objection,

a contradiction to the words of those who say that the Scroll of Fasts lapsed:

For we learned in a beraita:

It once happened that they decreed a fast on Hanukkah in Lod,

and they required fasting through the five afflictions: eating, drinking, anointing, washing, and wearing footwear.

And Rabbi Eliezer went down and washed, and Rabbi Yehoshua cut his hair

[and had a haircut].

And they said to them,

to the people of Lod:

Go out and fast over what you have fasted,

because fasting is prohibited on Hanukkah, as explained in the Scroll of Fasts.

But Rabbi Eliezer and Rabbi Yehoshua lived after the destruction of the Temple [which was destroyed during the lifetime of Rabban Yohanan ben Zakkai, their teacher], and from here it follows that even after the Temple was destroyed, the Scroll of Fasts did not lapse [and not in accordance with the words of those who say that the Scroll of Fasts lapsed].

He said,

he answered,

Rav Yosef: Hanukkah is different

[it is different]

from

the other days mentioned in the Scroll of Fasts, and everyone agrees that it did not lapse nowadays, because

there is a mitzva.

For it contains the mitzva of lighting the lamp, and it did not lapse.

Abaye said to him: Then let it itself lapse,

Hanukkah itself,

and let

even

its mitzva lapse!

Rather, said

he answered,

Rav Yosef,

another answer:

Hanukkah is different, for the miracle was publicized.

For it is revealed to everyone, because they practiced its mitzvot and upheld it as though it were a festival from the Torah.

Rav Aha bar Huna raised an objection

a contradiction to the words of those who say that the Scroll of Fasts lapsed, from what is said in the Scroll of Fasts [which is written in Aramaic]:

On the third of Tishrei, the mention of the Name was abolished from documents.

On the third of Tishrei, the Sages abolished the mention of the Name of Heaven from documents. Because

the Greek kingdom decreed a decree not to mention the Name of Heaven upon their mouths.

And when the Hasmonean kingdom

over the Greeks,

and defeated them, they instituted

the Hasmonean dynasty

that people should mention the name of Heaven

with their mouths, and

even in documents.

And this is how they would write

in documents:

“In such-and-such a year of Yohanan, the High Priest of the Most High God.”

And when the Sages heard about this, they said: Tomorrow this

borrower

will repay his debt, and the document will be found

torn

lying in the garbage.

And this is a disgrace to the name of Heaven.

And they abolished them

from mentioning the name of Heaven in documents.

It was very difficult to stop the people from this practice. And when the Sages succeeded in doing so, they regarded it as a miracle,

and they made that day a festival.

The Gemara, the Talmudic discussion of the Mishna, assumed that this event took place after the destruction of the Temple, as follows:

And from here there is a difficulty for those who hold that nowadays Megillat Ta'anit has been annulled:

For,

if it would enter your mind

to say that

Megillat Ta'anit has been annulled,

there is a difficulty: If

the earlier ones were annulled—

should the later ones be added!?

After all, the earlier festival days, although they were already observed during the time of the Temple, were annulled by the Sages; how, then, could new days be added, when joy had never been observed on them in the present era?

And we answer:

What are we dealing with here—

when did this event take place?

At a time when the Temple

was

standing.

Therefore, they established them as festival days on which fasting is prohibited.