Nedarim 20b — the Talmud in English

They asked Imma Shalom: “Because of what”, ![](pamud.bmp "

precise page-location")

are your sons exceedingly handsome?

She said to them:

my husband

does not converse with me

[in sexual relations]

neither at the beginning of the night nor at the end of the night, but

he converses with me

at midnight.

And when he converses

[and engages in intercourse]—he

uncovers a handbreadth and covers a handbreadth.

And he appears to himself like one whom a demon has compelled

to engage in intercourse.

And I said to him: “What is the reason

you conduct yourself in this manner?”

And he said to me: “So that I should not set my eyes upon another woman, and my sons should be found to come into the circumstance of illegitimacy!”

And we answer:

It is not difficult:

This one concerns matters of sexual relations,

it is proper for him to converse with her, so that he should not think of another woman.

This one concerns other matters,

one must not converse about them at the time of sexual relations.

Rabbi Yohanan said: This is the statement of Yohanan ben Dahavai

in the conduct of sexual relations.

But the Sages said: The halakha is not in accordance with Yohanan ben Dahavai! Rather, everything that a man wishes to do with his wife, he does!

It is analogous to meat that comes from the butcher’s house.

If he wishes

the man

to eat it

raw

with salt,

without cooking or roasting it—

he eats it

raw with salt. If he wishes to eat it

roasted—

he roasts it and

eats it

roasted.

Cooked—

he eats it

cooked.

Boiled—

he eats it

boiled.

And so

he conducts himself with

a fish that comes from the hunter’s house.

Ameimar said: Who are the ministering angels,

who are the “ministering angels” who related those four matters to Rabbi Yohanan ben Dahavai?—

The Rabbis!

The Sages said this to him, and not actual ministering angels.

For if you were to say,

that is, if you were to say that

actual ministering angels

related these matters to him,

why did Rabbi Yohanan say

that

the halakha is not in accordance with Yohanan ben Dahavai?

But they,

the ministering angels,

are more expert in the form of the fetus,

for they are more expert in the factors that cause defects in offspring at the time of their conception than human beings are, and we ought to conduct ourselves according to their words so that the offspring should not be blemished because of conduct that brings about such defects!

Rather, it is necessarily so that the Sages related this to him, and therefore Rabbi Yohanan stated his view that one need not be concerned for this.

And why did they call them

the Rabbis by the title

“ministering angels”?—

For they are distinguished,

for they resemble

ministering angels.

There was an incident involving

a certain

woman

who came before Rabbi.

She said to him: “Rabbi, I prepared a table for him

for my husband, for sexual relations,

and he overturned it!”

He said to her,

Rabbi:

“My daughter, the Torah has permitted you

to conduct himself with you in this manner,

but I—

what can I do for you?”

And there was another incident involving

a certain

woman

who came before Rav.

She said to him: “Rabbi, I prepared a table for him, and he overturned it!”

Rav said

to her: It is permitted for him to conduct himself according to his wishes,

what is different from a fish

[fish]. It is an analogy to a fish, which a person may roast or cook according to his wishes, and so the Torah permitted the husband to conduct himself in sexual relations according to his wishes.

It is written [Numbers 15] “

And you shall not follow after your heart”—

From here Rabbi said: A person should not drink from this cup and set his eyes upon another cup.

Ravina said: It was necessary only to say this, that even with

his

two wives,

he should not set his eyes upon one and engage in intercourse with the other.

It is written [Ezekiel 20] “

And I shall purge from you the rebels and the transgressors against Me”—

Rabbi Levi said: These are the sons of nine dispositions,

and their mnemonic is:

sons of fear, sons of rape, sons of hatred, sons of excommunication, sons of substitution, sons of quarrel, sons of drunkenness, sons of a divorced heart, sons of confusion, sons of an insolent woman.

Children of fear, children of rape, children of a hated woman, children of excommunication, children of exchange, children of strife, children of drunkenness, children of a divorced woman in his heart, children of confusion, and children of an immodest woman.

And we challenge:

Is that so!

But did Rabbi Shmuel bar Nahmani say in the name of Rabbi Yonatan: Any man whose wife demands him

for sexual relations—

he will have sons such that even in the generation of Moses our teacher there were none like them?

As it is stated [Deuteronomy 1]: “

«Дайте себе мужей мудрых и разумных»,

Provide for yourselves wise and understanding men,”

and it is written “

And I took the heads of your tribes,”

but

however,

it is not written “

understanding.”

And it is written [Genesis 49]: “

«Иссахар — костистый осёл»,

Issachar is a strong-boned donkey,”

and it is written [I Chronicles 12]

«Из сыновей Иссахара — знающие понимание времени»

“Of the sons of Issachar, those who know understanding of the times”!

And we answer:

That one—

who urges her by urging.

Hadran alakh, chapter “And these are permitted.”

Mishna:

The Sages permitted four vows: vows of urging, vows of exaggeration, vows made in error, and vows under duress.

And the Mishna explains these four vows:

What are vows of urging? -

If one was selling an object and said: Konam,

the value of the object is forbidden to me,

for I will not reduce for you from a sela,

which is its price [and a sela is four dinars], ")

and

if

the other

, the buyer,

said: Konam, I will not add for you beyond a shekel [

which is two dinars]

both want three dinars,

and therefore their vows do not prohibit it for them.