Nedarim 20b (כ:) — the Talmud in English

They asked Ima Shalom: Why

are your sons exceptionally beautiful?

She said to them:

My husband

does not converse with me [in sexual relations]

neither at the beginning of the night nor at the end of the night, but rather

he converses with me

at midnight.

And when he converses [and engages in intercourse]—he

exposes one handbreadth and covers one handbreadth.

And he appears to himself as one whom a demon has compelled

to engage in intercourse.

And I said to him: What is the reason

you conduct yourself in this manner?

And he said to me: So that I will not focus my eyes on another woman, and my sons will thereby come to the status of mamzerim!

And we answer:

This is not difficult:

Here, with regard to matters of sexual relations,

it is appropriate for him to converse with her, so that he will not think of another woman.

There, with regard to other matters,

one should not converse about them during sexual relations.

Rabbi Yohanan said: This is the statement of Yohanan ben Dehavai

with regard to the conduct of sexual relations.

However, the Sages said: The halakha is not in accordance with Yohanan ben Dehavai. Rather, whatever a man wishes to do with his wife, he may do!

This is analogous to meat brought from the butcher’s house.

If

the man

wishes to eat it

raw

with salt,

without cooking or roasting it—

he eats it

raw with salt. If he wishes to eat it

roasted—

he roasts it and

eats

it roasted.

Cooked—he

eats

it cooked.

Boiled—he

eats

it boiled.

And likewise,

he conducts himself with

a fish brought from the fisherman’s house.

Ameimar said: Who are the ministering angels,

who are the “ministering angels” who related those four matters to Yohanan ben Dehavai?—

The Sages!

It was the Sages who said this to him, and not actual ministering angels.

For if you say,

that is, if you say that

actual ministering angels

related these matters to him,

why did Rabbi Yohanan say

that

the halakha is not in accordance with Yohanan ben Dehavai?

But they,

the ministering angels,

are more expert in the formation of a fetus,

for they are more knowledgeable than human beings about the factors that cause defects in offspring at the time of conception, and we should conduct ourselves in accordance with their words so that the offspring will not be blemished as a result of conduct that causes such defects!

Rather, it must be that the Sages related this to him; and therefore Rabbi Yohanan stated his opinion that there is no need to be concerned about this.

And why did they call them,

the Sages, by the title

“ministering angels”?—

Because they are distinguished,

that is, they resemble

ministering angels.

There was an incident involving

a certain

woman

who came before Rabbi.

She said to him: Rabbi, I set the table for him

for my husband for sexual relations,

but he overturned it!

He said to her,

Rabbi:

My daughter, the Torah has permitted you

to conduct yourself with him in this manner,

but I—

what can I do for you?

And there was another incident involving

a certain

woman

who came before Rav.

She said to him: Rabbi, I set the table for him, but he overturned it!

Rav said

to her: He is permitted to conduct himself as he wishes.

How is this different from a fish [fish]? This is an analogy to a fish, which a person may roast or cook as he wishes; likewise, the Torah permitted a husband to conduct himself in sexual relations as he wishes.

It is written [Numbers 15]: “

And you shall not follow after your heart”—

From here Rabbi said: A person should not drink from this cup while directing his eyes toward another cup.

Ravina said: This is necessary only to teach that even with

his

two wives,

he should not focus his eyes on one and engage in intercourse with the other.

It is written [Ezekiel 20]: “

And I will purge from among you the rebels and those who transgress against Me”—

Rabbi Levi said: These are the children of the nine categories,

and their mnemonic is:

Bnei Asnat Meshageach:

Children of fear, children of rape, children of a hated woman, children of excommunication, children of exchange, children of strife, children of drunkenness, children of a divorced woman in his heart, children of confusion, and children of an immodest woman.

And we challenge this:

Is that so?

But Rabbi Shmuel bar Naḥmani said in the name of Rabbi Yonatan: Anyone whose wife initiates intercourse with him

for sexual relations—

will have children such as there were none even in the generation of Moses our teacher.

As it is stated [Deuteronomy 1]: “

Provide yourselves with wise and discerning men,”

and it is written: “

And I took the heads of your tribes,”

but

however,

it is not written: “

discerning.”

And it is written [Genesis 49]: “

Issachar is a strong-boned donkey,”

and it is written [I Chronicles 12]:

“And of the sons of Issachar, men who understood the times.”

And we answer:

That one—

who entices her by speaking persuasively.

The chapter “And these are permitted” is concluded.

Mishna:

The Sages permitted four types of vows: vows of exhortation, vows of exaggeration, vows made in error, and vows under duress.

The Mishna explains these four types of vows:

What are vows of exhortation? -

If one was selling an item and said: Konam

the price of the item is forbidden to me,

if I do not reduce it for you below a sela,

which is its price [and a sela is four dinars],

and

if

the other,

the buyer,

said: Konam, if I do not add to your price beyond a shekel [

which is two dinars] !(pamud.bmp "exact column location")

both of them want three dinars,

and therefore their vows do not prohibit anything to them.