Menachot 88a (פח.) — the Talmud in English

And

whom shall I bring in its place

to complete the seven measures of liquid?

Rather, there was an additional measure of a log and a half, with which he measured the liquid for the loaves of the High Priest: a log and a half in the morning,

and

a log and a half in the afternoon.

They said to him,

the Sages said to Rabbi Shimon:

But there was a measure of

half a log, and one could estimate using a half-log measure

in addition to the log measure; why, then, do I need a measure of a log and a half?

He said to them,

Rabbi Shimon answered the Sages:

But

even according to your words one could say: A measure of

one could say: The measure of

half a log should not be made,

because there was a measure of

a quarter-log

of the log

and one could estimate

a half-log

with

a measure of

a quarter-log!?

Rather, this was the rule in the Temple:

A vessel that serves as a measure for one quantity may not serve as a measure for another;

therefore, they required a separate measure of a log and a half for the loaves of the High Priest.

The beraita presents a dispute between Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehuda concerning the enumeration of the seven liquid measures that were in the Temple. Rabbi Meir lists them from largest to smallest, whereas Rabbi Yehuda lists them from smallest to largest. The Gemara asks:

What difference is there

in practical terms

between Rabbi Meir,

who lists them from largest to smallest,

and Rabbi Yehuda,

who lists them from smallest to largest?

Rabbi Yoḥanan said,

he explained:

The overflow of the measures [the liquid that rises above the vessel when it is filled beyond its capacity and immediately spills to the sides]

if it became consecrated,

is the difference between them:

According to the one who says

that Rabbi Yehuda lists them

from bottom to top, he holds:

Even

the overflow of the measures became consecrated, and the Merciful One gave Moses a quarter-log and said to him

to Moses:

Estimate

the other measures with it, and it follows

that their overflow was included [the overflow was also included].

In other words, when the Holy One, blessed be He, told Moses to make these measures, He said to him as follows: Make a quarter-log measure, and pour its contents twice into a vessel that can hold both portions; that will give you a half-log measure. Pour the contents of the half-log measure twice into a larger vessel; that will give you a log measure, and so on. It follows that the larger measure includes the overflowing portions as well, because when one pours from a smaller vessel into a larger one, its overflowing portions also spill into the larger vessel. We therefore learn that the overflowing portions of the measures were also sanctified.

That is, when the Holy One, blessed be He, told Moses to make these measures, He said to him as follows: Make a quarter-log measure, and pour its contents twice into a vessel that can contain them, and you will have a half-log measure; pour the contents of the half-log measure twice into a larger vessel, and you will have a log measure, and so on. It follows that the larger measure contains the overflow as well, because when one pours from a smaller vessel into a larger one, its overflow is poured into it too. Thus we learn that the overflow of the measures also became consecrated.

According to the one who says

that Rabbi Meir lists them

from top to bottom, he holds: The overflow of the measures did not become consecrated, and the Merciful One gave Moses a hin and said to him

to Moses

estimate

the other measures with it,

so that their overflow would emerge [the overflow would come out and spill onto the ground].

That is, the Holy One, blessed be He, said to Moses as follows: Make a hin measure, and pour its contents into two vessels, and you will have a half-hin measure, and so on. When one pours from a large vessel into a small vessel, the overflow spills only onto the ground,

and we learn that the measures do not consecrate the overflow.

Abaye said,

he too explained that the one who lists the measures from largest to smallest holds that the Holy One, blessed be He, told Moses to estimate the other measures from the hin measure, whereas according to the one who lists them from smallest to largest, the other measures were estimated from the quarter-log measure. However:

Everyone agrees that one may say that the overflow of the measures became consecrated, and one may say that it did not become consecrated; here they disagree concerning “full” measures,

with regard to what the Torah says: [“One silver bowl weighing one hundred thirty shekels, one silver basin weighing seventy shekels according to the sacred shekel, both filled with fine flour,” and from this we learn that all the measures must be full], but they disagree whether the Torah was particular only that the measure not be deficient, while it may be excessive, or not.

The one who says that they were listed from largest to smallest holds that the word

“full”

comes to teach

that it must not be deficient

relative to the measure

and must not be excessive

beyond the measure.

And the one who says that they were listed from smallest to largest

holds that the word

“full”

comes to exclude only

that it must not be deficient—

but

if he

adds

it is still

“full,”

as we read it;

because once he estimates the larger measure from the smaller measure, the smaller measures will necessarily be somewhat excessive relative to the larger measure. Therefore, if he adds, it does not matter.

The Master said

in the beraita:

Rabbi Shimon says: There was no hin measure there,

for what purpose would the hin have served?

And we raise an objection:

Rabbi Shimon has stated his position well to them [he has answered them well],

[that is, did he not answer them well]

to the Sages!?

The Gemara explains:

And the Sages

hold:

There was a hin measure

for oil

that Moses used to prepare the anointing oil, as it is written

[Exodus 30:23]: “And you, take for yourself choice spices ...

and oil

of olives, a hin,”

and for this they required a hin measure. The foundation of their dispute is:

The Master—

Rabbi Shimon—

holds: Since it was not needed for future generations,

as they prepared the anointing oil only once,

it was made only temporarily

for the hin measure,

and that measure was hidden away

the measure itself.

And the other one,

the Sages, holds:

Since it existed, it existed.

The Master said

The Master said

in the beraita, concerning Rabbi Shimon, who omitted the hin measure:

And whom shall I bring in its place,

but there was an additional measure of a log and a half ...:

And we raise an objection: Is it really impossible not to introduce [is he truly compelled to bring another measure in place of the measure mentioned by the Sages], to the point that he must consequently say that there was an additional measure of a log and a half there!?

[that is, was he compelled to bring another measure in place of the measure mentioned by the Sages], to the point that he must therefore say that there was an additional measure of one and a half logs!?

And we answer: This is

like

what

Ravina said

elsewhere:

It is an established tradition

from the halakha given to Moses at Sinai

that there are two acts of placing the hands performed by the community.

Here too, it is an established tradition

from the halakha given to Moses at Sinai

that there were seven liquid measures in the Temple;

and if the hin is not included among the seven, there must necessarily have been another measure there to complete the count.

We learned in the Mishna:

Rabbi Elazar bar Rabbi Tzadok

says: There were markings on the hin measure,

up to here for a bull and up to here for a ram ...:

And we raise an objection:

And

does

Rabbi Elazar bar Tzadok not hold

that there were

seven measures

in the Temple!?

And we answer: Indeed,

he does not hold so.

And if you wish, say: What is meant by

“seven measures”

“that were in the Temple,” as the Sages received it? It means

seven measurements

performed with a single measuring vessel.

Mishna:

Our Mishna continues to explain the liquid measures:

What purpose did the

quarter-log measure serve?

It was used to measure

a quarter-log of water for

the living waters used in the purification of

a metzora,

as it is written [Leviticus 14:5]: “He shall slaughter the one bird into an earthenware vessel over living water,”

and a quarter-log of oil for

the loaves of a

nazirite.

What purpose did the half-log measure serve?

It was used to measure

a half-log of water for a sota

to give her to drink, as it is written [Numbers 5:17]: “The priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel,”

and a half-log of oil for

the loaves of a

thanksgiving offering.

And with

the

log measure he measured for all meal-offerings,

and

even

a meal-offering of sixty isaron —

which requires a log of oil for each isaron—

he gives for the sixty

using the

log measure,

rather than using a larger measure.

Rabbi Eliezer ben Yaakov says:

Even a meal-offering of sixty isaron has only its log,

with a single log he would mix all sixty isaron,

as it is stated

[Leviticus 14:21]:

“For a meal-offering and a log of oil.”

Six

logs [half a hin] of oil

for

the meal-offering accompanying the libation offering of

a bull, and four

logs [one-third of a hin] of oil

for

the meal-offering accompanying the libation offering of

a ram, and three

logs [one-quarter of a hin] of oil

for

the meal-offering accompanying the libation offering of

a lamb,

And in order to measure all these, the following measures were there: half a hin, one-third of a hin, and one-quarter of a hin.

This measure was equal to the oil used for the meal offerings accompanying the libations and to the wine used for the libations; nevertheless, the wording of our Mishna indicates that it is discussing oil and not wine, and this also appears from Rashi's wording in a manuscript; nevertheless, the wording of our Mishna indicates that it is discussing oil and not wine, and this also appears from the wording of Rashi’s manuscript. The Mishna, the foundational early code of Jewish oral law, further adds an explanation that is unrelated to the matter of the measures, mentioning it incidentally:

See the Shitta Mekubbetzet and Zevah Todah. Three and a half logs

of oil were required

for the Menora, half a log

of oil

for each lamp.

Gemara:

Rabbi sat and was troubled by this question

he sat and raised the following difficulty]:

The

measure of a quarter-log—why was it anointed

with the anointing oil? That is, what needed to be consecrated with the quarter measure, such that it had to be anointed and made into a Temple service vessel, which consecrates whatever enters it with inherent sanctity!? For: It is written in Zevach Todah: According to the established ruling that all the vessels Moses made were consecrated by their anointing, while from that point onward their service inaugurated them, there was no further anointing at all. Rather, Rabbi was referring to the vessels Moses made, since these vessels too existed in the days of Moses, as the Gemara said above: “The Merciful One gave a quarter measure to Moses.”

If

they made it a Temple service vessel for the sake of

the metzora

for measuring the water for the metzora with it, as explained in the Mishna, this too cannot be said, for:\n\n\n