Menachot 88a — the Talmud in English

And

whom shall I bring in its place

to complete the seven measures of liquid?

Rather, an additional measure of a log and a half was there, with which he would measure the liquid for the chavitei of the High Priest: a log and a half in the morning,

and

a log and a half between the evenings.

They said to him,

the Sages to Rabbi Shimon:

But there was a measure of

half a log, and it was possible to estimate with a half-log

in addition to the log; why do I need a measure of a log and a half!?

He said to them,

Rabbi Shimon replied to the Sages:

But

even according to your words

one can say: the measure of

a half-log should not be made,

for there was a measure of

a quarter-log

of the log,

and it was possible to estimate

a half-log

with

a measure of

a quarter-log!?

Rather, this was the rule in the Temple:

A vessel that serves as a measure for one measure does not serve as another measure;

and therefore they required a separate measure of a log and a half for the chavitei of the High Priest.

In the beraita a dispute was brought between Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehuda concerning the manner of listing the seven measures of liquid that were in the Temple. Rabbi Meir lists them from above downward, that is, from the largest measure to the smallest, whereas Rabbi Yehuda lists them from below upward; and the Gemara asks:

What difference is there

in practical consequence

between Rabbi Meir,

who lists them from above downward,

and Rabbi Yehuda,

who lists them from below upward?

He said,

explained

Rabbi Yohanan: the heaped overflow of the measures [what is heaped over the vessel when it is filled excessively, and immediately spills to the sides]

if they were consecrated is the difference between them:

is the difference between them:

According to the one who says,

that Rabbi Yehuda lists them

from below upward, he holds:

even

the overflows of the measures were consecrated, and the Torah gave Moses a quarter-log, and said to him

to Moses:

Estimate

the other measures with it, and it follows

that the overflows entered them [the overflows too entered them].

In other words, when the Holy One, blessed be He, told Moses to make these measures, He said to him as follows: Make a quarter-log measure, and pour its contents twice into a vessel that can hold both portions; that will give you a half-log measure. Pour the contents of the half-log measure twice into a larger vessel; that will give you a log measure, and so on. It follows that the larger measure includes the overflowing portions as well, because when one pours from a smaller vessel into a larger one, its overflowing portions also spill into the larger vessel. We therefore learn that the overflowing portions of the measures were also sanctified.

That is to say, when the Holy One, blessed is He, told Moses to make these measures, He said to him as follows: Make a quarter-log measure, and pour its contents twice into a vessel that can hold them, and behold, you have a half-log measure; and pour the contents of the half-log measure twice into a large vessel, and behold, you have a log measure, and so on. It follows that the larger measure contains the overflows as well, for when one pours from a small vessel into a large one, its overflows too are poured into it; and we learn that the overflows of the measures were also consecrated.

According to the one who says,

that Rabbi Meir lists them

from above downward, he holds: the overflows of the measures were not consecrated, and the hin the Torah gave Moses, and said to him

to Moses

estimate

the other measures with it,

so that the overflows go out [the overflows went out and spilled onto the ground].

That is to say, the Holy One, blessed is He, said to Moses as follows: Make for yourself a hin measure, and pour its contents into two vessels, and behold, you have a half-hin measure, and so on; and the way of one who pours from a large vessel into a small vessel is that the overflows spill only onto the ground,

and we learn that the measures do not consecrate the overflows.

Abaye said,

also explaining that the one who lists from above downward holds that the Holy One, blessed is He, told Moses to estimate the other measures from the hin measure, whereas according to the one who lists from below upward, they estimated the other measures from a quarter-log; however:

Everyone agrees that concerning the overflows of the measures it may be said that they were consecrated, and it may be said that they were not consecrated; and here they disagree concerning “full” measures,

concerning what the Torah said [“one silver bowl, its weight one hundred and thirty, one silver basin of seventy shekels according to the holy shekel, both of them full of fine flour,” and from them we learned concerning all the measures that they should be full, but they disagreed: whether the Torah was particular only that the measure not be lacking, but one may leave over, or not].

The one who says from above downward holds:

“Full”

comes to teach

that he should not diminish

the measure

and should not leave over

from the measure.

And the one who says from below upward

holds that

“full”

comes to exclude only

that he should not diminish—

but

if

he leaves over,

still

“full”

is read in it;

for since he estimates the large measure from the small measure, the small measures must necessarily be somewhat excessive in proportion to the large measure. Thus, if he leaves over, it is of no concern.

The Master said

in the beraita:

Rabbi Shimon says: There was no hin there,

and what did the hin serve?

And we challenge: But

he has argued well to them [he refuted them],

Rabbi Shimon to the Rabbis!?

!?

And the Gemara explains:

And the Rabbis

hold:

There was a hin

of oil

that Moses made for the anointing oil, as it is written [Exodus 30:23]: “And you, take for yourself choice spices ...

[Exodus 30:23]: “And you, take for yourself choice spices …

and oil

of olives, a hin”;

and for this they required a hin measure. And the foundation of their dispute is:

The Master—

Rabbi Shimon—

holds: Since it was not needed for future generations,

for they made the anointing oil only once,

it was made for temporary use

for the hin measure,

and it was hidden away

that measure.

And the other one,

the Sages hold:

Since it existed, it existed.

The Master said

in the beraita, concerning the words of Rabbi Shimon, who omitted the hin measure:

And whom shall I bring in its place,

rather, an additional measure of a log and a half was there...:

And we challenge: Is it so that

it is impossible not to bring in [is he compelled to bring another measure in place of the measure of the Sages], such that by reason of this he must say that an additional measure of a log and a half was there!?

[that is, was he compelled to bring another measure in place of the measure mentioned by the Sages], to the point that he must therefore say that there was an additional measure of one and a half logs!?

And we answer: This is

like

something

that Ravina said

in another matter:

It is a received tradition

from the halakha given to Moses at Sinai:

two laying of hands in public.

Here too, it is a received tradition

from the halakha given to Moses at Sinai

that there were seven measures of liquid in the Temple;

and if the hin is not included among the seven, necessarily there was another measure there to complete the count.

We learned in the Mishna:

Rabbi Elazar son of Rabbi Zadok

says: There were markings in the hin,

up to here for a bull and up to here for a ram...:

And we challenge:

And

does

he not have

Rabbi Elazar son of Rabbi Zadok, that there were

seven measures

in the Temple!?

And we answer: Indeed,

he does not have.

And if you wish, say: What is

“seven measures

were in the Temple,” which the Sages received? That is:

seven measurements

made with one measuring vessel.

Mishna:

Our Mishna continues to explain the measures of liquid:

The measure of

a quarter-log—what did it serve?

To measure with it

a quarter-log of water for

the living waters of the purification of

the leper,

as it is written [Leviticus 14:5]: “And he shall slaughter the one bird into an earthenware vessel over living water,”

and a quarter-log of oil for

the loaves of

a nazirite.

A half-log—what did it serve?

To measure with it

a half-log of water for the sota,

to give her to drink, as it is written [Numbers 5:17]: “And the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel,”

and a half-log of oil for

the loaves of

the thanksgiving offering.

And with

the measure of

a log he would measure for all the meal-offerings,

and

even

a meal-offering of sixty issaronot —

which requires a log for each issaron—

he gives for the sixty

with the measure of

a log,

and he would not use a larger measure.

Rabbi Eliezer son of Yaakov says:

Even a meal-offering of sixty issaronot has only its log,

with one log alone he would knead all sixty issaronot,

as it is said [Leviticus 14:21]

“

for a meal-offering and a log of oil.”

Six

logs [half a hin] of oil

for

the meal offering accompanying the libation of a

bull, and four

logs [one-third of a hin] of oil

for

the meal offering accompanying the libation of a

ram, and three

logs [one-quarter of a hin] of oil

for

the meal offering accompanying the libation of a

lamb.

And in order to measure all these, the following measures were there: half a hin, one-third of a hin, and one-quarter of a hin.

The Mishna, the foundational early code of Jewish oral law, further adds an explanation that is unrelated to the matter of the measures, mentioning it incidentally:

Three and a half logs

of oil were needed

for the Menora, half a log

of oil

for each lamp.

Gemara:

Rabbi sat and was troubled by this question

[Rabbi sat and raised a difficulty]:

The

quarter measure—why was it anointed

with the anointing oil? That is, what needed to be consecrated with the quarter measure, such that it had to be anointed and made into a Temple service vessel, which consecrates whatever enters it with inherent sanctity!? For:

If

they made it a Temple service vessel for the sake of

a metzora

who measured with it, as explained in the Mishna, this too cannot be said, since: