Menachot 87b — the Talmud in English

The level one, with which he measured

a complete issaron

for the griddle-cakes of the High Priest,

and afterward he divided it with a measure of half an issaron.

And the Sages say:

There was nothing there except

a measure of

one issaron, as it is stated [Numbers 29:4]:

Numbers 29:4 ]:

“And one issaron for each lamb.”

If so —

according to the Sages —

what does the verse teach

“an issaron, an issaron,”

to include

a measure of

half an issaron

for the meal-offering of the griddle-cakes.

The Gemara asks:

And Rabbi Meir —

who derives from the superfluous wording that there were two measures of an issaron — the measure of

half an issaron, from where does he derive it?

The Gemara answers:

He derives it from “

and an issaron,”

the extra vav teaching about the measure of half an issaron.

And

if

the Sages

did not expound the extra

vav “

and

an issaron,”

what do they expound, and they had to derive the measure of half an issaron from “an issaron, an issaron”?

And Rabbi Meir — this

“and one issaron for each lamb”

— what does he do with it?

From it the Sages learned that there were not two types of issarons.

what does he do with it?

And we explain:

That verse teaches that he should not measure with three

issarons

for a bull, nor with two for a ram.

And the Sages derive it —

for this law —

from its vowel points,

from the vowel point over the word “and an issaron,” written in chapter 29, verse 15, concerning the additional offerings of the first day of the Festival of Sukkot

; for it was taught:

Rabbi Yosei said: Why is the vav dotted

in the middle of

“and”

issaron,

of [that is, over]

“

issaron”

first

[the first word “issaron”]

of the first day of the Festival of Sukkot,

where it says there: “And an issaron, an issaron for each lamb,” and in the first word “and an issaron” its vav is dotted:

To teach

that he should not measure with three for a bull, nor with two for a ram.

And Rabbi Meir does not expound its vowel point.

We learned in the Mishna:

“Half an issaron, what was it used for? With it he measured for the griddle-cakes of the High Priest”:

And we challenge this: Does it indeed say

“measured”,

which implies that this is how he brought the meal-offering from his house, half — a half-issaron!?

And we raise a contradiction

to this from the earlier Mishna, which says:

“The griddle-cakes of the High Priest did not come in halves,”

he did not bring two half-issarons from his house,

but he brought a complete issaron and divided it.

He said,

explained

Rav Sheshet:

What

“

measured”

also that is taught in our Mishna means:

divided.

A mnemonic

for the questions of Rami bar Hama below:

half; griddle-cakes; table.

Rami bar Hama asked Rav Hisda:

Half:

The measure of

half an issaron —

which was intended for dividing the griddle-cakes —

according to Rabbi Meir,

who holds that there were two issarons, one heaped for all the meal-offerings and one level for the griddle-cakes:

Was it

heaped [

containing half an issaron together with the heap]

or perhaps

it was

level?

Rav Hisda wondered:

And let it be a question for you according to the Sages, for surely this doubt should be entertained for the Sages just as for Rabbi Meir!?

Rami bar Hama said to Rav Hisda:

According to the Sages,

even

the issaron itself is a question

for me [according to the method of the Sages, who hold that there was only one issaron, I am uncertain about it as well]: was it

heaped, or was it level;

and only according to Rabbi Meir, who holds that there were two issarons, one heaped and one level, am I uncertain about the half-issaron alone.

He said to him

Rav Hisda to Rami bar Hama, to resolve all his doubts:

From Rabbi Meir

himself concerning the issaron,

it follows for Rabbi Meir

concerning the half-issaron;

and from Rabbi Meir

concerning the half-issaron

it follows for the Sages

concerning the half-issaron —

Since Rabbi Meir said, “the issaron” —

which was intended for the griddle-cakes —

was level, therefore

then

the half-issaron —

which was intended for dividing the griddle-cakes —

was also level.

From

this

it follows for Rabbi Meir that it was level

that the measure intended for the griddle-cakes was,

for the Sages also it was level

that the measure intended for the griddle-cakes was; for according to the Sages, both the issaron and the half-issaron were intended also for the griddle-cakes.

Griddle-cakes:

Rami bar Hama asked Rav Hisda:

The dough of

the griddle-cakes of the High Priest —

with what did he divide it into

six

cakes

that he made from the dough in the morning, and into the six cakes that he made from the dough in the evening? Was he

by hand

dividing them without a measuring vessel,

or with a vessel

of measure was he dividing them? Rav Hisda said to Rami bar Hama:

It is obvious that by hand

he was dividing them;

for if with a vessel

he was dividing them, then

scales

[balances for dividing the dough]

would he bring

into the Temple courtyard!? And he explains it and proceeds.

And we raise an objection:

“Would he bring”

scales into the Temple courtyard—and what of it!?

And we explain:

Since

dividing bread by weight

is with a curse

as it is

written, and as the verse says in the rebuke in the portion of Bechukotai, “And they will return your bread by weight,” therefore

it is

not proper conduct

[this is not a respectful way] to do so in the Temple courtyard.

The Table:

Rami bar Hama asked Rav Hisda: The Table

of the showbread,

what is [the law] that it should sanctify the handfuls

of frankincense

with its heap?

That is, the essential law of the frankincense was in the manner that they arranged two bowls with frankincense upon the Table, and through the burning of the frankincense afterward upon the altar, the bread became permitted for eating. And the frankincense was sanctified by means of the bowls. But the Gemara is uncertain: if he placed the handfuls of frankincense upon the Table itself, and not in the bowls, does the Table sanctify them? The uncertainty of the Gemara is because the Table has no interior, and the frankincense is placed upon the Table as a heap upon a service vessel; and the sides of the uncertainty are:

Shall we say:

Since the Table sanctifies

the

bread

with its heap, then

it likewise sanctifies the handfuls

with its heap?

Or perhaps:

the showbread

that is fit for it

[fit for the Table] indeed

the Table sanctifies,

but that

which is not fit for it, such as frankincense, which is fit for the bowls and not for the Table itself,

such as frankincense, which is fit for the bowls but not for the Table itself—

the Table does not sanctify

it.

He said to him

Rav Hisda to Rami bar Hama:

It does not

sanctify

the handfuls that were placed upon it without bowls.

And we raise an objection against this:

Is that so

but the matter is not so!?

For Rabbi Yohanan said:

a. Every loaf of the showbread was ten handbreadths long, and it was placed across the width of the Table, which was one cubit wide [some say: a cubit of five handbreadths, and some say: a cubit of six handbreadths], and the excess stood upright, protruding on either side.

b. Six loaves, one above the other, were placed on each side of the Table.

According to the one who says two and a half handbreadths

was the excess of the showbread on each side of the Table, it

was folded,

he folded the sides of the bread upward, because according to his opinion the width of the Table was a cubit of five handbreadths, and the excess of each loaf was five handbreadths, that is, two and a half handbreadths on each side—

It follows that the Table sanctifies

as a service vessel—

fifteen handbreadths upward

as the height of the bread upon it, for six loaves were placed one upon the other, each one two and a half handbreadths high, which makes fifteen handbreadths.

But

according to the one who says two handbreadths

alone, it

was folded,

because the width of the Table was a cubit of six handbreadths, and there was only two handbreadths of excess on each side—

It follows that the Table sanctifies twelve handbreadths upward,

which are six loaves, the height of each one being two handbreadths.

It is thus explained that the Table sanctifies corresponding to this height, and not as was explained, that the Table sanctifies only the bread and nothing else.

He said to him

The Table

does not sanctify

the frankincense

for being offered, but it does sanctify

the frankincense

for becoming disqualified,

that is, to sanctify it with the sanctity of the body, so that it becomes disqualified through one who immersed that day and through leaving [the proper place], as though it had been placed in the bowls.

Mishna:

Seven measures

of

liquid

[wine and oil]

were in the Temple,

according to the measure required for wine or oil:

a.

A hin

[it is twelve log; and in the Gemara it will be explained what it was used for].

b.

And half a hin

for the libations of a bull, wine for the bowls, and oil for the meal-offering.

c.

And a third of a hin

for the libations of a ram, wine and oil.

d.

And a quarter of a hin

for the libations of a lamb, wine and oil.

e.

A log

for all the meal-offerings; and it will be explained further in the next Mishna.

f.

And half a log

for the water of the woman suspected of adultery, and for the oil of the loaves of thanksgiving.

g.

And a quarter of a log

for the living water of the leper, and for the oil of the loaves of the nazirite offering; as all this is explained in the next Mishna.

Rabbi Eliezer bar Rabbi Tzadok says:

There were not seven measures there, but

graduations

[marks, nails, or notches]

were in

the measure of the

hin,

saying:

Up to here for a bull, and up to here for a ram, and up to here for a lamb.

Rabbi Shimon says:

There were always seven measures there, but

there was not there “

a hin,”

for

what use was a hin!?

Rather, what do you have to bring in order to complete seven measures:

what could you bring in order to complete the seven measures:

There was an additional measure of a log and a half, with which he measured for the meal-offering of the High Priest

[which came every day]

a log and a half

of oil

in the morning

to mix with the six loaves,

and a log and a half

of oil

in the evening

to mix with six additional loaves.

Gemara:

The Sages taught:

There were seven measures of liquid in the Temple: a quarter

of a log,

and half a log, and a log, and a quarter of a hin, and a third of a hin, and half a hin, and a hin.

The words of Rabbi Yehuda.

Rabbi Meir says,

[he counted the seven aforementioned measures from the largest to the smallest, unlike Rabbi Yehuda, who counted from the smallest to the largest]:

A hin, and half a hin, and a third of a hin, and a quarter of a hin, and a log, and half a log, and a quarter

of a log.

Rabbi Shimon says:

There was no hin there,

for

what use was a hin!?