Menachot 75a — the Talmud in English

What is here:

in the minhat marcheshet,

the placing of oil in a vessel

precedes its making,

so too there:

in the minhat machvat,

the placing of oil in a vessel

precedes its making.

And now the Gemara explains the source for the second and third placing of oil in the two menachot.

And what is there,

in the minhat machvat, there is

pouring

of oil,

and mixing,

for the verse says: “Fine flour mixed with oil, and you shall pour oil upon it.”

So too here,

in the minhat marcheshet, there are

pouring and mixing—

Thus we have learned three placings of oil, both in the minhat machvat and in the minhat marcheshet.

We learned in the Mishna:

Loaves—

he mixes them, the words of Rabbi.

And the Sages say: Fine flour.

The Sages taught:

It is said concerning the minhat machvat: “

Fine flour

mixed,”

this teaches

the verse

that it is mixed

the minha with oil when it is

fine flour.

Rabbi says: Loaves—

he mixes them.

As it is said

in the minhat maafeh tanur: “

Loaves

of unleavened bread

mixed

with oil,” and it implies that the mixing is when they have already been made into loaves, that is, after their baking.

They said to him

the Sages:

But

also in

the loaves of thanksgiving it is said concerning them: “

Loaves

mixed with oil,”

and it is impossible to mix them except as fine flour [

and this will be explained in the Gemara later in the matter].

What does he do

with the minhat machvat and marcheshet, according to the Sages?

He places oil in a vessel before making them [

this is the first placing of oil],

and places it

for the minha upon the oil,

and

again

he places oil upon it and mixes it, [

this is the second placing of oil, and this is the “mixing”],

and kneads it

with lukewarm water,

and bakes it

in a machvat or marcheshet,

and breaks it into pieces [

he breaks it into fragments],

and places upon it [

upon the minha after breaking it into pieces]

oil [

this is the third placing of oil, and this is the “pouring”],

and takes a handful.

And the Gemara explains the words of the beraita:

Rabbi says: Loaves he mixes them, as it is said “

Loaves mixed with oil”:

What does he do

with the minhat machvat and marcheshet, according to Rabbi?

He places oil in a vessel before making it, and places it

upon the fine flour of the minha,

and kneads it

with lukewarm water,

and bakes it

in a machvat or marcheshet,

and breaks it into pieces, and places oil upon it, and mixes it, and again places oil upon it [

this is the pouring],

and takes a handful.

We learned in a beraita: The Sages said to him: But concerning the loaves of thanksgiving it is said that they are loaves, and

it is impossible

to mix them when they are loaves:

And it is explained in the Tosefta that

the Sages spoke well to Rabbi,

for we learned there: Rabbi said, “Their words appear more convincing than my words.”

And the Gemara asks:

What is it?

What was the argument of the Sages and their proof from the loaves of thanksgiving? And why is it impossible to explain, also concerning the loaves of thanksgiving, according to Rabbi’s words?

He said,

he explained,

Rabbi Shmuel bar Rav Yitzhak: A quarter

of a log

of oil

alone

is

for the ten loaves and the ten wafers of the loaves of thanksgiving together, and

how is it divided

this small quantity

among several loaves!?

For this is the law of the loaves and wafers of thanksgiving: one brings half a log of oil and divides it, half of it for ten loaves and ten wafers; and the measure of fine flour in the loaves and wafers was seventeen isarons less one-third, and after their baking they are dry, and they absorb more oil on account of the fire, and a quarter of oil is not sufficient for them.

We learned in the Mishna:

The loaves [

of the maafeh tanur]

require mixing, and wafers require anointing:

The Sages taught:

Only

loaves

would he make them

mixed

with oil before their baking [according to the Sages].

But not wafers mixed

with oil. Rather, they were anointed with oil after their baking, when they were whole, before the breaking into pieces.

One might have thought

to say:

Is it not a logical inference

that the wafers should be mixed with oil, for indeed,

if loaves, which do not require anointing, require mixing,

wafers, which require anointing, surely require mixing.

The verse states: “

Loaves

of unleavened bread

mixed,”

and not wafers mixed.

The beraita further explains:

Wafers anointed

with oil,

and not loaves anointed—

one might have thought

to say:

Is it not a logical inference

that the loaves should be anointed, for indeed,

if wafers, which do not require mixing, require anointing,

loaves, which require mixing, surely require anointing—

The verse states, wafers anointed [“

Wafers of unleavened bread anointed with oil”],

and not loaves anointed.

And now the Gemara asks concerning what we said, that the loaves do not require anointing and the wafers do not require mixing:

What is the teaching,

how do we learn this matter!? For although the verse mentioned mixing with loaves and anointing with wafers, one could say that when the verse said anointing concerning wafers, the same law applies to loaves; and likewise, when the verse said mixing concerning loaves, the same law applies to wafers?

He said,

he explained,

Rava:

The proof is that

the verse did not happen to omit

in any place

and write: “

Loaves anointed, and wafers mixed,”

but everywhere it specifically says mixing with loaves and specifically anointing with wafers; therefore, learn from this that it is specifically so.

We learned in the Mishna:

How does he anoint them?

In the form of a chi.

And the remainder is eaten

by the priests:

What is “in the form of

chi”?

He said,

he explained,

Rav Kahana: In the form of a Greek chi,

like the shape of the Greek letter “chi.”

It was already mentioned above, 72b, that according to Rabbi Shimon, the minhat maafeh tanur comes in three forms: either entirely loaves, or entirely wafers, or half loaves and half wafers; and the beraita taught here below is according to Rabbi Shimon.

The Sages taught:

This is the law of a

minha [

the minhat maafeh tanur]]

that comes half loaves and half wafers:

He brings a log of oil [

this is the measure of oil for an isaron, which is the smallest measure in a minha],

and divides it, half of it for the loaves and half of it for the wafers.

And the loaves, he mixes them

after anointing the wafers.

And the wafers, he anoints them

first,

and anoints the wafer over its entire surface

and not in the form of a chi.

And the remaining oil, he returns it to the loaves

for the mixing that is done after anointing the wafers.

Rabbi Shimon ben Yehuda in the name of Rabbi Shimon says: He anoints them

the wafers

in the form of a chi, and the remaining oil is eaten by the priests.

It was taught in another beraita: Wafers

of the minhat maafeh tanur

that come by themselves:

He brings a log of oil,

and anoints them, and again anoints them

until the oil in the log is exhausted.

And this is unlike what is explained in our Mishna.

Rabbi Shimon ben Yehuda says in the name of Rabbi

Shimon: He anoints them in the form of a chi,

and the remaining oil is eaten by the priests,

as explained in our Mishna.

Mishna:

All the menachot made in a vessel,

including the minhat maafeh tanur,

require breaking into pieces [

breaking into fragments] after their baking.

Gemara:

The Gemara interprets: This that the Mishna said, “made in a vessel,”

to exclude what

which menachot does the Mishna come to exclude, that they do not require breaking into pieces?

He said:

Rav Pappa explained:

to exclude the two loaves and the showbread,

which are baked in an oven, for which breaking into pieces is not required, as the source for this is explained in the beraita brought nearby.

The Sages taught:

It is written concerning the pan-baked meal-offering: "

Break it into pieces,"

"and you shall pour oil upon it,"

a meal-offering

"it is." The verse says, "It is a meal-offering,"

to include all

the meal-offerings,

apart from the pan-baked meal-offering,

for breaking into pieces.

I might have thought that I include

for breaking into pieces

even

the

two loaves and the showbread?

The verse says: "

it,"

which implies: it, and not another. And the verse came to exclude only these, whereas the other meal-offerings are included from "It is a meal-offering."

We further expound from what the verse says: "

And you shall pour

upon it

oil, a meal-offering

it is," that it comes

to include

the

entire meal-offerings for pouring.

I might have thought that I include even the baked meal-offering

for pouring?

The verse says: "

and you shall pour

oil upon it,"

to exclude the baked meal-offering from pouring, as explained above, 62b.

You might say:

I will exclude

from the exclusion of "upon it"

the loaves

of the oven-baked meal-offering only, for they do not require pouring, since they were already mixed with oil,

but I will not exclude the wafers

which were not mixed with oil —

The verse says: "

a meal-offering

it,"

and this is an additional exclusion, to exclude even the wafers from pouring.

And we raise a difficulty:

What is the indication [

how do you learn from here to exclude even the wafers]?

But

say

that the second exclusion

comes to exclude the priests' meal-offering

which does not require pouring, but not the wafers?!