Meilah 16b (טז:) — the Talmud in English

We learned in the Mishna: And all creeping creatures combine with one another.

The Gemara discusses the measure for which one is liable to receive lashes for eating creeping creatures: whether it is an olive-bulk or a lentil-bulk.

Rav Yehuda said that Rav said: For eating creeping creatures, one receives lashes for them

in

the measure of

an olive-bulk.

The version of the Shita Mekubetzet.

What is the reason? “Eating” is written with regard to them;

The Torah states [Leviticus 11]: “And every creeping creature that creeps upon the earth, it is an abomination; it shall not be eaten ... You shall not eat them, for they are an abomination.” And the unqualified term “eating” stated in the Torah refers to the measure of an olive-bulk.

And we raise an objection:

But it was taught—

for did not

Rabbi Yosei bar Rabbi Ḥanina

teach a beraita before

Rabbi Yoḥanan:

The Torah states [Leviticus 20]: “

And you shall distinguish between the pure animal and the impure, and between the impure bird and the pure, and you shall not make your souls detestable through animal or bird or through anything that creeps upon the ground, which I have set apart for you to be impure,”

and we derive:

The verse begins with eating;

What the Torah says, “You shall not make your souls detestable,” refers to the prohibition against eating, for the detestation of the soul is through eating .

And it concludes;

The verse concludes, with regard to creeping creatures: “And through anything that creeps upon the ground, which I have set apart for you to be impure”—that is

with regard to impurity,

to render others impure through contact with them, teaching you:

Just as impurity,

whose measure is

a lentil-bulk ,

so too eating,

whose measure is

a lentil-bulk.

And when Rabbi Yosei bar Rabbi Ḥanina taught this before Rabbi Yoḥanan,

Rabbi Yoḥanan praised him,

praising this exposition.

If so, one exposition is difficult from the other. Rav said that their measure is an olive-bulk, and it is reasonable to say so, since no one disputes him. Moreover, the Torah says “eating,” and the unqualified term “eating” refers to an olive-bulk. Yet this beraita expounds that the measure for receiving lashes for eating them is a lentil-bulk ?

And we answer:

Rav Yosef said

It is not difficult;

the expositions do not contradict one another!

Here,

where the beraita expounded that their measure is a lentil-bulk, it is speaking

of their death,

of the eight creeping creatures after they have died. Only in death do they render impure in the small measure of “a lentil-bulk,” as the Torah states [there]: “And these are impure for you among the creeping creatures that creep upon the earth: the mole, the mouse, and the tortoise according to its kinds; and the ferret, the lizard, the gecko, the snail, and the chameleon. These are impure for you among all the creeping creatures; anyone who touches them when they are dead shall be impure until evening.” Since the Torah assigns their impurity the measure of a lentil-bulk, their measure for eating is likewise a lentil-bulk,

whereas

here,

where Rav said that their measure for eating is an olive-bulk, it is speaking

of them while alive,

when they do not render impurity. Therefore, their measure for eating is an olive-bulk, like that of the other prohibitions of eating in the Torah, whose measure is an olive-bulk .

Abaye said

to Rav Yosef: How is it possible to interpret Rav’s words as referring to the eight creeping creatures while they are alive?

But Rav is commenting on the Mishna,

Rav stated his ruling with reference to the Mishna ,

and

indeed

the Mishna

teaches: “All creeping creatures,”

and it teaches this even with regard to their death.

This implies that Rav said that the measure of creeping creatures is an olive-bulk even with regard to dead creeping creatures?

Rav Yosef said

to Abaye:

That inference of yours is yours alone!

You may retain that inference, but I have no involvement with it, because

Rav was merely stating a teaching,

Rav stated an independent tradition and did not say it as an explanation of the Mishna.

We learned above that Rabbi Yosei bar Rabbi Ḥanina taught a beraita before Rabbi Yoḥanan, which expounds that the measure for eating creeping creatures is a lentil-bulk, like the measure of their impurity, and Rabbi Yoḥanan praised this exposition.

And we wonder:

Did Rabbi Yoḥanan really praise him?!

The Gemara raises an objection;

it cites a Mishna in tractate Ohalot [chapter 1, mishna 7]:

The limbs,

a complete limb from a corpse, containing flesh, sinews, and bones,

have no measure,

and render impurity through contact, carrying, and a tent,

even

when they are

less than an olive-bulk of a corpse.

And less than an olive-bulk of an animal carcass

renders impure through contact and carrying.

And less than a lentil-bulk of a creeping creature renders one impure with its impurity .

That is, complete limbs render impurity even below their prescribed measure, since, being complete, they are significant .

And Rabbi Yoḥanan said: One receives no lashes for them

for eating them

unless he eats an olive-bulk.

Even though their impurity applies at less than an olive-bulk.

And this Mishna certainly speaks of limbs that separated from a corpse, because the Mishna is discussing the eight creeping creatures, which render impurity only in death, and the Mishna comes to teach that if it is a complete limb, it renders impurity even below the measure of a lentil-bulk ,

It follows that Rabbi Yoḥanan holds that the measure for receiving lashes for eating, even in their death, is an olive-bulk. This is difficult: How did Rabbi Yoḥanan praise the beraita that expounded that the measure for eating is a lentil-bulk? And we answer:

Rava said: The verse speaks

of the “set-apart” creatures [the eight creeping creatures are called “set apart,” since the Torah distinguished and singled them out from the other creeping creatures; the other creeping creatures do not render impurity, whereas the eight creeping creatures do]

with regard to them.

That is, indeed, with regard to the eight creeping creatures, one receives lashes even for the measure of a lentil-bulk, as Rabbi Yoḥanan praised the exposition of the beraita: Just as their measure of impurity, so is their measure for eating.

And what Rabbi Yoḥanan said, “One receives lashes only for an olive-bulk,” refers specifically to eating an animal that has died. Rabbi Yoḥanan came to teach us that although the Mishna says that a complete limb renders impurity even when it is less than an olive-bulk, nevertheless one receives lashes for eating it only for an olive-bulk.

For the Torah equated eating with impurity only with regard to what is stated at the end of the verse, “which I have set apart for you to be impure”—that is, the “set-apart” eight creeping creatures .

And we raise an objection:

Rav Adda bar Ahava said to Rava: If that is so, then with regard to an animal as well, let us distinguish

between one that is set apart and one that is not set apart.

That is, although the distinction between “set apart” and “not set apart” does not apply to animals, since there is no distinction between one animal and another, the Gemara’s intention is: Why did Rabbi Yoḥanan say that although the measure of impurity for a complete limb of an animal is any amount, nevertheless the measure for eating it is an olive-bulk,

and why do we not equate an animal with the creeping creatures mentioned in the same verse, and say that just as, with regard to creeping creatures, the measure for eating a complete limb is any amount, like the measure of their impurity, so too, with regard to an animal, the measure for eating it is like the measure of its impurity? After all, the Torah equated them in a single verse ?