Kiddushin 71b — the Talmud in English

Rav Huna bar Taḥlifa said:

he explained

in the name of Rav: It is not difficult. ![](pamud.bmp "

exact page location")

Here—

that where there is no specific information, it is disqualified—this is with regard to

marrying him to a woman,

for they do not permit an unverified family in Eretz Yisrael to enter the community without investigation.

And

here—

that where there is no specific information, it is fit—this is with regard to

taking a woman away from him.

For once he has already married a woman, they do not tell him to divorce her as long as he has not been investigated and found disqualified.

Rav Yosef said: Anyone whose speech is like that of Babylonians,

who speaks in the language of the people of Babylonia,

they may marry a woman to him initially without investigation,

because he is presumed by us to be from the families of Babylonia, which have the presumption of fitness.

But nowadays,

now

when there are deceivers,

who teach the people of Eretz Yisrael the language of Babylonia so that they will be presumed to be of distinguished lineage,

we are concerned even with one whose speech is like that of Babylonians,

lest he be from the families of Eretz Yisrael that require investigation.

Zeiri was evading

avoiding

Rabbi Yoḥanan,

because

Rabbi Yoḥanan would say to him:

Rabbi Yoḥanan:

marry my daughter

take my daughter as a wife!

And Zeiri did not wish to marry her, because he was from the families of Babylonia, whereas Rabbi Yoḥanan was from the families of Eretz Yisrael, which were of lesser lineage.

One day, Rabbi Yoḥanan and Zeiri were going

Rabbi Yoḥanan and Zeiri

on the road,

on the way.

They reached a water channel

they reached a water channel.

Zeiri placed Rabbi Yoḥanan on his shoulders and carried him across

Zeiri placed him on his shoulders and carried him across.

Rabbi Yoḥanan said to him:

You are behaving like my student. And if

my Torah

my Torah

is fit

in your eyes to learn from me, how is it possible that

my daughters

my daughters

are not fit

in your eyes to marry them?!

What is your reasoning,

why do you consider the families of Babylonia to have superior lineage?

If you say: from

because of

what we learned: Ten classes of lineage ascended from Babylonia: priests, Levites,

Israelites, disqualified priests, converts, and emancipated slaves—and do you think that all the disqualified people mentioned ascended to Eretz Yisrael, and none of them remained in Babylonia?!

That is not so. For

is it so

that

the priests, Levites, and Israelites

mentioned in the Mishna

all ascended

from Babylonia?! Surely some of the fit ones remained in Babylonia, and they did not all ascend.

And

just as some of these remained,

the fit ones,

some of those remained as well

the disqualified ones; and if so, Babylonia does not have superior lineage to Eretz Yisrael.

It escaped

Rabbi Yoḥanan

that which Rabbi Elazar said: Ezra did not ascend from Babylonia until he had made it like sifted fine flour, and then he ascended,

for he brought up from it all the disqualified people.

Ulla happened to come to Pumbedita, to the house of Rav Yehuda.

He saw

he saw

Rav Yitzḥak, son of Rav Yehuda, who had grown up but had not married

he had grown up but had not married.

Ulla said to

Ulla said to Rav Yehuda:

Why does the Master not marry a woman to his son

why do you not marry a woman to your son?!

Rav Yehuda said to him:

But

do I know from where I should marry [a woman]?!

I do not know which woman has distinguished lineage and is fit to marry to my son.

He said to him: Do we, then, know from where we come?!

Do we know our own origin?!

Perhaps

we

are from

the seed of

those

non-Jews who violated the daughters of Israel at the time of the destruction. As

it is written

Lamentations 5:11: “

Women were violated in Zion, virgins in the cities of Judah.”

And if you would say,

nevertheless we are fit, because our mothers are from Israel, and

a gentile or a slave who has relations with a daughter of Israel

and she became pregnant from him,

the offspring is fit?! —

—

Nevertheless, there is still reason for concern regarding us, lest we be disqualified, because

perhaps,

perhaps we

are from

the seed of

those about whom it is written

Amos 6:4: “

Those who lie on beds of ivory and sprawl upon their couches”—

And Rabbi Yosei bar Ḥanina said

in explanation of this verse:

These are

those

people who urinate in front of their beds

when they are

naked

which is a disgraceful and foul thing: to urinate on the ground near the bed and then continue sleeping that way; and this is the meaning of the expression “sprawl” used by the verse.

And Rabbi Abbahu denounced

rejected

him

regarding this explanation, and said:

If so,

if this is the meaning of the verse, it is difficult: what

is the meaning of what is written

later in the verse concerning the punishment of these people: “

Therefore now they shall go into exile at the head of the exiles”?!

Would they be punished with such a severe punishment, that they should go into exile at the head of the exiles, merely because they urinate naked in front of their beds [which is only a disgraceful act]?!

Rather, Rabbi Abbahu said: These are

those

people

who eat and drink with one another, join their beds to one another, exchange their wives with one another, and foul their couches with semen that is not theirs,

and their sons are thereby found to be mamzerim.

And this is what Ulla said to Rav Yehuda: From where do we know that we are not descendants of those people, and that we are disqualified by the law of a mamzer?

Rav Yehuda said to him:

If so,

what shall we do?!

How can I select a woman of distinguished lineage for my son?

Ulla said to him:

Ulla said:

Go after silence.

Choose for yourself a silent family, for its silence demonstrates its lineage.

For people who are loud and quarrelsome are suspected of disqualification. Since the public separated from them because of their disqualification, they became accustomed to harboring hatred and maintaining quarrels with the public.

Like this practice by which the people of the West examined

as the people of Eretz Yisrael examined, for

when two people quarrel with one another,

when two quarreled between themselves,

they saw which of them was first to remain silent,

they saw which of them first became silent and ceased from the quarrel, and

they said: This one has more distinguished lineage!

Rav said: The silence of Babylonia—that is its distinguished lineage!

There is no need to investigate lineage; rather, it is sufficient to examine whether a person is silent, and through this he is considered to have distinguished lineage.

And we raise an objection:

Is that so? And

surely the matter is not so, for

Rav happened to come to the house of Bar Shafi Ḥala

he happened to come to the house of a man who was pouring vinegar,

and he examined them

regarding the fitness of their family.

Is it not

that Rav examined their fitness

through their lineage

of their family, and did not rely on their silence?

And we reject this:

No,

that is not what happened; rather, he examined

through silence.

And

this is what he said to them: Examine whether they are silent or whether they are not silent.

And on this basis he determined their lineage.

Rav Yehuda said in the name of Rav: If you see two people provoking one another, there is a trace of disqualification in one of them!

And

therefore they quarrel with one another, because

they do not allow him

from Heaven

to attach himself to the other,

and for this reason Heaven placed quarrel between them.

Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said: If you see two families provoking one another, there is a trace of disqualification in one of them.

And

therefore there is quarrel between them, because

they do not allow it

from Heaven

to attach itself to the other.

Rav Pappa the elder said in the name of Rav:

Babylonia—

healthy,

it has distinguished lineage and is free of disqualified people. “

Mishon”—

a place of

death,

for all its inhabitants are complete mamzerim.

Media—

ill,

it is neither healthy nor dead; rather, the majority of its inhabitants are fit and the minority are disqualified, like these sick people, most of whom recover and a minority of whom die.

Elam—

dying!

Like dying people, most of whom are destined for death and a minority for life, so the majority of its inhabitants are disqualified and the minority are fit.

And therefore he calls Media “ill” and Elam “dying,” for

what is the difference between sick people and dying people?—

Most sick people [are destined] for life,

and so is Media, whose majority is fit.

And

most dying people [are destined] for death,

and so is Elam, whose majority is disqualified.

We learned in the Mishna: Eretz Yisrael is dough for Babylonia.

And the Gemara discusses:

How far does Babylonia extend,

with regard to lineage?

The passage before us is explained according to the method of Tosafot.

Two great rivers pass through Babylonia, the Euphrates and the Tigris. They flow from north to south. The Euphrates is on the western side of Babylonia, whereas the Tigris is on its eastern side. The two rivers draw close to one another below, on the southern side of Babylonia, and eventually unite into one river.

All the area between the Euphrates and the Tigris is certainly the land of Babylonia with regard to lineage.

The issue in the Gemara is how far the width of Babylonia extends [with regard to lineage] beyond the bank of the Tigris, outward, toward the east.

Rav said: Up to the River Ezeq,

the width of Babylonia extends to the river located on the eastern side of the Tigris.

And Shmuel said: Up to the River Yoani.

These boundaries are the eastern and western boundaries of Babylonia [that is, all the area between the Euphrates and the Tigris, as well as the area beyond the Tigris toward the east, up to the River Ezeq according to Rav, or up to the River Yoani according to Shmuel].

And now the Gemara discusses where the northern and southern boundaries of Babylonia are with regard to lineage.

The Gemara first discusses where the northern boundary of Babylonia is:

Above,

higher,

along the Tigris

the Tigris,

up to where?!

How far does Babylonia extend above, along the upper side of the Tigris?

Rav said: Up to Bagda and Avana,

which are places near one another, with the Tigris separating between them.

That is the northeastern corner of Babylonia with regard to lineage.

And Shmuel said: Up to Mushkeni,

Babylonia extends toward the north,

but Mushkeni itself is not included.

Thus, Mushkeni itself is no longer considered Babylonia with regard to lineage.

And we raise an objection:

But Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba said in the name of Shmuel: Mushkeni is

considered

like

the status of

Golaa

with regard to lineage.

And “Golaa” means Pumbedita. It is thus proven that it too is within the boundaries of Babylonia.

And we conclude:

Rather,

this is what Shmuel said:

up to Mushkeni, and

even

Mushkeni is included

in Babylonia.

And now the Gemara explains what the southeastern side of Babylonia is with regard to lineage:

Below,

lower,

along the Tigris,

along the Tigris,

up to where?!

How far does Babylonia extend along the lower side of the Tigris, which is on the southern side?

Rav Shmuel said: Up to Apamea below

Apamea below, but not including it.

For

there are two Apameas, one upper and one lower

one higher and one lower.

One

the upper one

is fit

for lineage, because it is still part of Babylonia.

And one

the lower one

is disqualified,

as it is already outside the boundaries of Babylonia.

And between one

Apamea

and the other

to its counterpart, there is a distance of

a parasang.

And they are strict with one another, and they do not even lend one another fire

The people of the fit one are strict with the people of the disqualified one, not to draw near them, and they do not even lend them fire, so that they will not become accustomed to being with them and come to marry one another.

And your sign

this will be your sign for knowing which is the fit one and which is the disqualified one:

the disqualified one is the one that speaks the language of Mishon.

The disqualified one is the one that speaks the language of “Mishon,” because it is closer to it. And we already learned above: Mishon is dead [disqualified].

And now the Gemara discusses where the northwestern corner of Babylonia is:

Above

higher,

along the Euphrates—

up to where?

How far does the northern boundary of Babylonia extend above, along the upper side of the Euphrates?

Rav said: Up to Aqra de-Tulbaknei.

And Shmuel said: Up to the bridge of the house of the Euphrates,

the bridge over the Euphrates. That is, Shmuel extended it farther, toward the north.

And Rabbi Yoḥanan said: Up to the crossing of Gიზמה.

Abaye cursed

cursed

or, some say, Rav Yosef,

he cursed anyone who would rely, with regard to lineage, on Babylonia

according to Rav

on Rav’s statement, because they held that the boundary of Babylonia does not extend so far, and the entire area mentioned is not included within the lineage of Babylonia.

And we wonder: Does Abaye curse only one who relies

on Rav

Abaye; whereas one who relies

on Shmuel he does not curse?!

But Shmuel expands the territory of Babylonia farther toward the north.

And we answer:

Rather, Abaye curses

Abaye even one who relies

on Rav, and all the more so

that he curses

one who relies on Shmuel.

And if you wish, say: Actually,

only

he curses one who relies on Rav,

but

he does not curse one who relies on Shmuel.

Because on the northwestern side Shmuel reduced the length of Babylonia. For

the bridge of the house of the Euphrates,

the place of the bridge over the Euphrates, which is the northwestern boundary according to Shmuel,

below it

lower, north of Rav’s boundary, within the country,

stood

it stood in the days of Shmuel; and later they built it farther north, while Shmuel was referring to the bridge that existed in his time.