Ketubot 8b — the Talmud in English

And the Gemara resolves it:

When that one was taught

—the beraita that even the mourners themselves join the quorum—

with the blessing after meals,

that is, the mourners join for the zimmun, since they are obligated in the mitzvot.

And

when Rabbi Yoḥanan said

that the mourners do not join the quorum—

in the row,

which they would form around the mourner returning from the grave, who would sit among those standing, and they would comfort him; and a row is no fewer than ten, and the mourner does not join the ten people.

And

we are still perplexed:

But concerning that which Rabbi Yitzḥak said in the name of Rabbi Yoḥanan:

The blessing of bridegrooms is recited with ten, and bridegrooms are included in the quorum.

And the “blessing” of mourners is recited with ten, and mourners are not included in the quorum.

And this is difficult according to your words, for you say that Rabbi Yoḥanan spoke only of the row:

Is there a blessing in the row

[and is there a blessing in the row]!?

And on the strength of this objection, the Gemara resolves Rabbi Yoḥanan’s words differently:

Rather, when Rabbi Yoḥanan said

that the mourners do not join the quorum, it was with the blessing of mourners, which they would recite

in the open square

of the city [and it is explained below], at the meal of consolation that they would make for the mourner upon his return from the cemetery. And this blessing they would recite with ten, and the mourners were not included in the quorum.

And

we are still perplexed:

But concerning that which Rabbi Yitzḥak said in the name of Rabbi Yoḥanan:

The blessing of bridegrooms is recited with ten throughout all seven days, and bridegrooms are included in the quorum.

And the blessing of mourners is recited with ten “throughout all seven,” and mourners are not included in the quorum.

And according to your words, that you interpret Rabbi Yoḥanan’s words as saying only [in the open square]:

Is there a blessing in the open square “throughout all seven”,

for it is recited only at the meal of consolation that they make after the burial!?

And the Gemara resolves: Indeed,

it is possible to find

the blessing in the open square throughout all seven days of mourning

with new faces,

when new faces would come to comfort him—his close associates and acquaintances from other places who had heard of his bereavement. Their custom was to prepare a meal for him in his house and recite there that very blessing which they would recite at the meal of consolation in the open square. And what is the blessing of mourners:

For it was like this: Rav Ḥiyya bar Abba was the teacher of Scripture of the sons of Reish Lakish

[Rav Ḥiyya was the Scripture teacher of the sons of Reish Lakish],

and some say: he was the teacher of Mishna of the son of Reish Lakish

[he was the one who taught him Mishnayot]—

A child died

to Rav Ḥiyya bar Abba

a young child,

and he sat in mourning for him seven days.

On the first day he did not go to him

[on the first day of mourning, Reish Lakish did not go to comfort him].

On the next day, he brought

[this is an expression of conducting]

Yehuda bar Naḥmani, his interpreter

[on the day after the first day, Reish Lakish brought with him Yehuda bar Naḥmani, who was his interpreter, to make his words heard to the public].

He said to him

—Reish Lakish said to his interpreter:

Stand and say something corresponding to the young child

[say words of consolation over the child’s death]!

He began and said:

It is written:

“And the Lord saw and became angry, because of the provocation of His sons and His daughters”—

And this is its meaning:

A generation whose fathers provoke the Holy One, blessed be He,

then the Holy One, blessed be He,

is angry with their sons and their daughters, and they die,

the sons and the daughters,

when they are young.

And this is what the verse said: “And the Lord saw”—what the fathers did.

And some say:

the deceased was not a child, but

he was a young man.

And this is what he said to him,

this verse the interpreter recited over him:

“Therefore, concerning his young men

[of the sinful fathers]

the Lord will not rejoice, and He will not have compassion on his orphans and his widows, for everyone is profane and an evildoer, and every

mouth speaks vile things; despite all this His anger has not turned back, and still

His hand is outstretched”—

What is “and still His hand is outstretched”?

Rav Ḥanan bar Rav said: Everyone knows for what purpose a bride enters the bridal canopy; but whoever makes his mouth vulgar and utters a vile word from his mouth—even if the verdict of seventy years had been sealed for him for good—it is turned against him for evil.

And this is what the verse said, “and still,” which is like: a world “and still”; that is, a person’s world is poised to be turned against him from good to evil.

The Gemara is astonished at Reish Lakish:

He came to comfort him

[he came here in order to comfort him]

and he is causing him anguish,

saying to him that his son died because of his sins!?

And the Gemara explains:

This is what he said

Reish Lakish

to him: You are considered worthy to be seized for punishment,

you are considered above worthy of being seized, you and your sons, because of the sin of the generation.

He said to him

Reish Lakish said to his interpreter:

Stand and say something

[say words]

concerning the praise of the Holy One, blessed be He!

He began and said:

Blessed are You, Lord our God, King of the universe,

the great God in the abundance of His greatness, mighty and strong in the abundance of awesome deeds, bringing the dead to life by His utterance, doing

great deeds beyond investigation, and wonders beyond number,

Blessed are You, Lord, Who brings the dead to life.

Again

he said to him,

Reish Lakish said to his interpreter:

Stand and say something concerning the mourners!

The interpreter began

and

said:

Our brothers, exhausted and crushed by this mourning, give your hearts to investigate this,

[that everyone dies, and do not weep excessively],

this is something that stands forever; it is a path established since the six days of Creation,

many drank, many will drink,

as was the drinking of the earlier ones, so is the drinking of the later ones. Our brother, Master of consolations, will console you. Blessed

are You, Lord,

Who comforts mourners.

Abaye said:

Whoever says something of this kind—

“many drank,” let him say it

[“many drank”—let him say it]!

But

“many will drink,” let him not say it

[let him not say it]!

And likewise,

“the drinking of the earlier ones,” let him say it

[let him say, “It is the drinking of the earlier ones”]!

But “so

the drinking of the later ones,” let him not say it!

And because

Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish said:

And likewise a tanna taught in the name of Rabbi Yosei: A person should never open

his mouth to the Satan.

Rav Yosef said: What is the verse,

where does the verse teach that a person should not open his mouth to the Satan?

As it is stated: “Had not the Lord left us a remnant, we would have been almost

like Sodom, we would have resembled Gomorrah

[we would all have been destroyed].”

And

what did the prophet answer him?

“Hear the word of the Lord, rulers of Sodom

[rulers whose deeds are like Sodom]; listen to the Torah of our God, people of Gomorrah” [this is a nearby verse in Isaiah].

He said to him: Stand and say something concerning the comforters of mourners!

The interpreter began

and

said: Our brothers, doers of acts of kindness, sons of doers of acts of kindness, who uphold the covenant of Abraham our father,

our brothers, the Master of recompense will pay

you your recompense. Blessed are You

Lord,

Who pays the recompense.

Again

he said to him: Stand and say something concerning all Israel.

He began and said: Master of the worlds! Redeem, save, rescue, and deliver Your people Israel from pestilence, from the sword, from plunder, from blight, from mildew, and from all kinds of calamities that erupt and come upon the world. Before we call, You will answer. Blessed are You

Lord,

Who restrains the plague.

Ulla said: And some say that it was taught in a baraita

[it is taught in a beraita]:

The Sages instituted ten cups in the house of mourning,

to increase the amount given to the mourner to drink, even though he does not wish to. And as it is stated: “Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to the bitter of soul”:

Three

cups

before the meal, in order to open his intestines,

that is, their custom was to eat delicacies before the meal, such as cakes, doughnuts, and iskritin; and when they ate these delicacies, they would give the mourner three cups to drink.

Three

cups

during the meal, in order to soak the food in his intestines.

And four

cups

after the meal,

and these are:

One corresponding to “Who feeds”,

at the end of the blessing of “Who feeds” in the blessing after meals, the mourner would drink it, and they would pour him another cup.

And one corresponding to the blessing of the land.

And one corresponding to “Who builds Jerusalem.”

And one corresponding to “Who is good and does good.”

They added four to them,

additional cups, because of the four blessings that they would recite:

A cup

one

in the blessing that they would recite

corresponding to the attendants of

[the attendants of]

the city,

since the attendants occupied themselves with the dead and with the other needs of the community.

And one

in the blessing that they would recite

corresponding to the administrators of the city,

who were wealthy and spent their money on the burial of the poor.

And one

in the blessing that they would recite

corresponding to the Temple,

that the Holy One, blessed be He, should comfort us through its rebuilding from our mourning over it, for we mourn over it as over a dead person.

And one

in the blessing that they would recite

corresponding to Rabban Gamaliel,

and it is explained below.

They began drinking and becoming intoxicated

more than fourteen cups, and

they restored the matter to its former state,

to drink only ten cups.

What is [the significance of] Rabban Gamaliel?

For it was taught: At first, taking out the dead was harder for his relatives than his death,

because the wealthy would bury the dead in honorable garments, and because of the shame the poor would also do so,

until

it became difficult for them and

they would leave

the poor

him and flee.

Until Rabban Gamaliel came and treated himself lightly, and they took him out

Rabban Gamaliel

in linen garments.

And all the people followed him and took the dead out in linen garments.

Rav Pappa said: And nowadays the world follows the practice of using even tzerda worth one zuz,

[nowadays the world follows the practice of taking out the dead even in hemp shrouds worth no more than a dinar].