Eruvin 58b — the Talmud in English

But

if there was

a plumb line descending directly opposite it,

for the slope was very steep, there is no need to measure the slope by kidur, since such a slope does not diminish the measure of the limit.

Rather, he does not measure the slope at all; he descends to the bottom of the ravine, and there

measures it

for the ravine

with a proper measurement,

like level ground, and emerges above and continues measuring.

And

until

how much

will be

the depth of a ravine,

so that it is permitted to absorb it within fifty cubits?

Rav Yosef said: Two thousand.

But if it was deeper than two thousand, he must measure it by kidur.

Abaye raised an objection

to Rav Yosef: If the ravine was

one hundred deep and fifty wide—

he absorbs it.

включают.

But if not,

that is, its depth was more than one hundred or its width more than fifty—

he does not absorb it.

And how did Rav Yosef say that he absorbs it to a depth of two thousand!?

And we answer:

He,

Rav Yosef,

said in accordance with Others

Rabbi Meir].

For it was taught in a beraita: Others say: Even if

the ravine was

two thousand deep and fifty wide—

he absorbs it.

There are those who say: Rav Yosef said: Even if

the ravine was

more than two thousand—

he absorbs it.

And we raise a difficulty:

In accordance with whom

did Rav Yosef speak? Yet his words are

neither in accordance with the first tanna nor in accordance with Others!

And we answer:

There,

the dispute between the first tanna and Others is in a place that is somewhat fit for walking—

where a plumb line does not descend directly opposite it,

and therefore they are stringent with it when it is more than two thousand.

But

here,

Rav Yosef’s words refer

to

such a steep slope that

a plumb line descends directly opposite it.

Therefore, it is not to be considered in the measure of the limit; rather, he may absorb it.

And we examine it:

But where a plumb line does not descend directly opposite it,

which we say is a slope somewhat convenient for walking, and we are stringent to measure it—

to what extent

may the plumb line be distant, and shall we be stringent to measure it?

Avimi said:

Up to

four

cubits from the edge of the ravine, from the place where the plumb line is cast below. But if the plumb line is not distant four cubits from the edge of the ravine, this is a steep slope that is not fit for walking, and it is not measured in the measure of the city’s limit.

And likewise Rami bar Yehezkel taught: Four

cubits.

We learned in the Mishna:

If he reached a mountain—

he absorbs it

the mountain

and returns to his measure.

Rava said: They taught this only with regard to a mountain

whose slope is sharp,

which rises

to a height of

ten

handbreadths

within

a span of

four

cubits.

But with regard to a mountain

whose slope is not sharp,

which rises

to a height of

ten

handbreadths

within five

cubits—

he measures it with a proper measurement.

Rav Huna son of Rav Natan taught it leniently:

Rava said: They taught

that one must absorb [or measure by kidur] the mountain

only with regard to a mountain that rises ten within five.

But with regard to a mountain

that is upright,

which rises ten within four,

there is not even a need to absorb it; rather, it is sufficient that he

estimate it

with a mere estimation

and go on his way.

We learned in the Mishna:

Provided that he does not go out

and measure and absorb

outside the limit.

What is the reason?

Rav Kahana said: A decree, lest those who see him say:

The

measure of the Shabbat limits has come here.

This was explained at the beginning of the previous folio.]

We also learned in the Mishna:

If he is unable to absorb it—

they measure by kidur.

The Sages taught: How does one measure by kidur?

The lower

surveyor

holds the rope

opposite his heart.

Whereas the upper

surveyor

places it

opposite his feet.

Abaye said: We have it: One measures by kidur only with a rope of four cubits.

Rav Nahman said that Rabbah bar Avuha said: (We have it:) One does not measure by kidur either in

measuring the distance between a slain person found lying on the road and the nearby cities, with regard to bringing

a heifer whose neck is broken, nor

in measuring the limits of

the cities of refuge, because they are

measurements

of Torah.

Mishna:

One measures only through an expert,

who is proficient in measurement.

If one increased

the limit

in one place and reduced it in another—

they heed

that is, take into consideration

the place where he increased it.

If one increased for one,

that is, one surveyor increased the measure of the limit,

and reduced for another,

that is, another surveyor reduced the measure of the limit—

they heed the greater measure.

And even a gentile slave or even a maidservant are trustworthy to say: “Up to here is the Shabbat limit.”

For the Sages did not state the matter,

when they decreed not to carry outside the limit,

to be stringent

with regard to the limits,

but to be lenient

with regard to the limits.