Eruvin 57b — the Talmud in English

Now

the conclusion of our Mishna is not a continuation of the words of the Sages, but it is an unattributed Mishna, and

whose opinion is it? —

It is Rabbi Meir’s opinion.

And I hold in accordance with the Sages.

And we object:

If

the conclusion of the Mishna is

Rabbi Meir’s opinion,

why did we need to state it at all?

For

he already taught it

in the words of Rabbi Meir in

the beginning: “They give one karpef to the city, the words of Rabbi Meir”?

And we answer:

It is necessary

to state the words of Rabbi Meir both in the beginning and in the conclusion.

For if [we had] only that,

from the beginning of the Mishna, in which it stated the words of Rabbi Meir that they give one karpef to the city,

I would have said

that they give only one karpef, even between two cities.

And thus I would have said: They give one karpef

to one

city,

and

one karpef

to two

cities.

It teaches us

in the conclusion

that for two

cities

two

karpefs

are given to them

according to Rabbi Meir.

And if it had taught us only here,

in the conclusion, that according to Rabbi Meir they give two karpefs to two towns, I would have said that the reason for the matter is

because their use is cramped.

It is necessary to give them the space of two karpefs since they are close together and need open land because of the density resulting from their proximity to one another.

But there,

in the beginning, where it is speaking of one city, for all the land around it is open,

since their use is not cramped —

perhaps not

do they give it any karpef at all.

And therefore

it is necessary

to teach us that according to Rabbi Meir they give a karpef also to one city.

And the Gemara raises an objection to Rav Huna from the continuation of the Mishna:

We learned: “And likewise, three villages that form a triangle” —

if there are between the two outer ones one hundred forty-one and one-third cubits

[which is the measure of two karpefs] —

he makes

the

middle one into all three as one.

And we infer:

The reason is that there is

a village

in the middle

between the two villages, and they give one karpef to connect the middle village to the village on one side of it, and another karpef to connect it to the village on the other side. Thus there is only one karpef between each village and the next.

If there is no

village

in the middle —

no,

they do not give two karpefs to connect them.

A refutation of Rav Huna!

Rav Huna could say to you: This was stated concerning it: Rabba said that Rav Idi said that Rabbi Hanina said:

In our Mishna

it is not

said that there were villages

actually forming a triangle

in one row, one after the other.

Rather,

the middle village is very far from the two, and the two standing in one row are also not close to one another.

And for the purpose of connecting them,

“we see”:

whatever, if

I were to take the middle village from its place and

cast

the

middle

village between the two outer villages,

and they would be

as a result of the [imaginary] placement of the middle village between them

“forming a triangle,”

as though all three were standing in one row, close to one another,

and there is no

distance

between one and the other except one hundred forty-one and one-third cubits,

meaning that between each village and the next there is this measure,

then

he makes

the

middle village into all three as one.

That is, Rav Huna explains that according to Rabbi Hanina’s words, one indeed gives two karpefs between two villages in order to connect one to the other.

For the Mishna is dealing with a middle village that stands at a distance, and “we see” whether, according to its size, it is possible to fill with it the empty area between the other two villages. And they leave a space of two karpefs between the middle village and each of the villages at its sides.

He

asked

Rava asked Abaye: How great must be

the distance

between

the

outer village and the middle one,

so that we can “see” as though the middle one stands between the outer ones?

He said to him,

Abaye said to him: Up to

two thousand cubits.

Since they can go from one village to the other without an eruv of the boundaries, we see the middle village as though it stands between the two villages.

Rava said to Abaye:

But you are the one who said

earlier, concerning a city shaped like a bow, that

the view of Rava, son of Rabba, son of Rav Huna, is more reasonable, for he said:

even if the chord is distant from the bow

more than two thousand cubits,

the two sides of the bow are nevertheless considered one city, and the boundary of the city is measured from the chord.

And Abaye rejected this:

How can these be compared?!

What is the comparison!?

There,

in a city shaped like a bow,

there are houses

along the entire bow, and all the inhabitants of the city can reach the two ends of the bow by way of the houses of the city. Therefore the two ends of the bow can be joined even if the chord between them is farther than two thousand cubits from the crown of the bow.

But

here,

with three villages, where the middle one is farther from the outer ones than two thousand cubits,

there are no houses

by way of which it is possible to go from one village to the other.

And he said

and further asked

Rava asked Abaye: How great must be

the distance

between the outer one and the outer one?

And we consider this:

How great must be

the distance —

what difference does it make to you?

For

whatever, if he brings in

the

middle village between them, and there is between one and the other only one hundred forty-one and one-third cubits,

they are one; so what concern is the distance between them, when everything depends on the width of the middle village!

And

Rava asked him: Is it

even

if the distance between the two outer villages is

four thousand cubits?

He said to him,

Abaye [said] to him:

Yes.

Even if there is a distance of four thousand cubits between the villages, the middle village joins them into one.

And Rava objected to him:

But Rav Huna said: “A city shaped like a bow—if there are between its two ends less than four thousand cubits” —

“they measure for it from the chord; and if not,” —

“they measure for it from the bow!”

He said to him: There,

in a city shaped like a bow,

it is not possible to say, ‘fill,’

for we have nothing with which to fill the area between the two ends of the bow.

But

here,

with a middle village between the two outer ones,

it is possible to say, ‘fill’:

fill the air between the outer ones with the measure of the width of the middle village.

Rav Safra said to Rava: “But the inhabitants of

the city

of Akistafon, for whom we measure

who measure

their boundary from this side

from this side

of

the city

of Ardashir. And for the inhabitants

of Ardashir we measure their boundary from this side, that of Akistafon,

since we consider them one city.

How do they do this? And

is there not

the river

Tigris, which interrupts

between them

by more than one hundred forty-one and one-third cubits!

He went out,

Rava went out,

he showed him

and showed Rav Safra the

those foundations of the wall,

the rows of the city wall

that are swallowed

that enter

into

the river

Tigris by seventy cubits and remnants

of the city’s intercalation.

Mishna:

They measure

the boundary of the city

only with a rope of fifty cubits, neither less nor more.

And he may measure only opposite his heart.

For the Sages established that the two measurers who stretch the rope between them should hold the rope opposite their hearts, so that one does not hold it opposite his heart and the other opposite his feet, thereby reducing the boundary.

If he was measuring and reached a ravine

that is not fifty cubits wide,

or a fence

that had fallen and is now a high heap of stones, and people walk upon it, there is no need to measure the slope of the ravine or of the heap; rather, it shall be

“made to disappear,”

so that one measurer stands on the bank of the ravine on this side and a second measurer on the bank of the ravine on its other side, and they measure it above it as though it were level ground; and in the case of a heap they measure it from the side,

and the measurer returns

the measurer

to his measure.

And the Gemara explains that the meaning of “returns to his measure” is that if the ravine is wider than fifty cubits, so that he cannot make it disappear by measuring above it, he goes to the side outside the city, to a place where the ravine narrows to a width of less than fifty cubits, and there he makes the ravine disappear. And from there he looks toward the place beyond the ravine and continues measuring the ravine opposite the city.