Chullin 22b — the Talmud in English

And as for young pigeons, which are not fit when grown,

for “young” signifies specifically small ones,

they are fit when small.

Turtledoves, which are fit when grown,

is it not logical that they should be fit when small as well!

The verse therefore says, “turtledoves,”

to teach you that only

grown ones, and not small ones. “

young pigeons”

as stated in the Torah, means

small ones and not grown ones,

for “young” signifies small ones.

One might have thought:

if “young pigeons,” rather than “pigeons,” had not been written in the Torah, I could have said that even grown young pigeons are fit by a kal va-chomer. For,

is this not an a fortiori inference: just as turtledoves, which are not fit when small, are fit when grown, young pigeons, which are fit when small, should certainly be fit when grown!

The verse therefore says, “young pigeons,”

to teach you that only

small ones, and not grown ones.

And the Gemara discusses:

What is the indication?

How is it indicated from “young pigeons” that it comes to exclude our declaring grown ones fit by a kal va-chomer? For one could say that “young pigeons” comes to declare small ones fit, while the grown ones are also fit by a kal va-chomer.

And we answer:

Rava said: Let the verse not omit and write!

For in all the places in the Torah where offerings of birds are stated, we do not find in any of them that it is written,

“from the young of the turtledoves or from the pigeon,”

but in all of them it is written “young pigeons”; this indicates that it is indispensable that they be specifically small ones.

And we object to what is written in the beraita, that small ones were excluded by “turtledoves”:

Say that it is young pigeons, concerning which the Merciful One wrote “young,”

which signifies small ones; therefore we say:

small ones, yes; grown ones, no.

But

turtledoves,

which in their meaning include both grown ones and small ones, why should we not say:

if he wishes grown ones, let him bring them,

he is permitted to bring them,

and if he wishes small ones, let him bring them!?

And we answer: Turtledoves are

analogous to young pigeons.

Turtledoves must be equivalent to young pigeons in this respect:

just as with young pigeons, small ones, yes, and grown ones, no,

so that young pigeons are not fit in the manner in which turtledoves are fit,

so too turtledoves

are not fit in the manner in which young pigeons are fit, but

grown ones, yes; small ones, no.

The Sages taught: One might have thought that all turtledoves

are fit even though they are not yet grown, but have already left the category of smallness.

And all young pigeons

shall be

fit

even if they have already left the category of smallness but have not reached the category of full growth—that is, that in both of them the beginning of yellowing should be fit?

The verse therefore says, “from the turtledoves,”

and we expound:

and not all the turtledoves.

And since it is written

“from the young of the pigeons,”

we expound:

and not all the young pigeons.

The verse comes to exclude: turtledoves are fit only when they are grown, and young pigeons are fit only when they are small,

excluding the beginning of yellowing, which in both this and that is disqualified,

it being disqualified: in turtledoves because they have not yet reached full growth at that point, and in young pigeons because they have already left the category of smallness.

From when are turtledoves fit? From when they become golden!

That the wings on their bodies are grown and their color is like the color of gold.

From when are young pigeons disqualified? From when they become yellow.

That the feathering around the neck begins to turn yellow.

Jacob the Bald taught: From when are young pigeons fit?

For it is certain that on the day they are born they are not yet fit for an offering, since they are repulsive.

From when they have blood,

as he explains.

He taught it,

Jacob the Bald was repeating this law from his teacher,

and he said it,

he explains on his own that “when they have blood” is from the expression

“its fledglings suck blood.”

That is, from the time when blood is found in the flesh of the fledglings.

When?

How shall we know this?

Abaye said: From when one pulls out a wing from it and blood comes.

From that time when, if a wing is uprooted from their body, there is blood in that place.

Rabbi Zeira raised a question: One who says, “It is incumbent upon me

to bring as an offering

a burnt-offering.

One bird

from the turtledoves or from the young pigeons,

whichever of them I wish,

and he brought the beginning of yellowing of this one and of that one,

for he brought both a turtledove and a young pigeon, and each of them was at the beginning of yellowing,

what is the law?

Has he fulfilled his vow?

And the sides of the uncertainty are: Is the beginning of yellowing

a matter of uncertainty,

so that in this state there is uncertainty concerning them, perhaps they are already grown or perhaps they are still small, and therefore one who vows only turtledoves and brings the beginning of yellowing has not fulfilled his obligation, perhaps they are small, and one who vows only young pigeons has not fulfilled his obligation, perhaps they are grown; but this person, who vowed to bring one of them and brought both of them at the beginning of yellowing,

fulfills it,

he has fulfilled it in either event: if at the beginning of yellowing they are already grown, then the turtledoves are fit and he has fulfilled it with them; and if they are small, then the young pigeons are fit and he has fulfilled it with them.

Or

perhaps at the beginning of yellowing they are neither grown nor small, but

a creature

in its own right

it is,

having left the category of smallness but not having reached the category of growth,

and he does not fulfill

the one who vowed his obligation. For both the turtledoves and the young pigeons are certainly disqualified for an offering at the beginning of yellowing: the turtledoves because they are still not grown, and the young pigeons because they are already no longer small.

And we resolve it:

Rava said: Come and hear

from that which was taught in the beraita above, that we derive from the exclusion of “from the turtledoves” and “from the young pigeons”:

“excluding the beginning of yellowing, which in both this and that is disqualified.” Granted, if you say that it is a creature in its own right, this is well;

a verse is needed to teach us that the beginning of yellowing is a creature in its own right and is therefore disqualified in both this and that.

But if you say that it is a matter of uncertainty,

then is it so that

a verse is needed to exclude a matter of uncertainty?!

For before the Holy One, blessed is He, there are no uncertainties.