Chagigah 14a — the Talmud in English

It was taught: Rabbi Shimon the Pious said

to interpret the verse, “Who were cut off and not in their time”:

These are the nine hundred and seventy-four generations that were cut off

[it had been decreed concerning them]

from being created ![](pamud.bmp "

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before the world was created, and were not created.

That is, because the verse says, “The word that He commanded for a thousand generations,” implying that the giving of the Torah would take place after one thousand generations. Yet the giving of the Torah took place after twenty-six generations, from the first man until Moses our teacher. And those nine hundred seventy-four missing generations were driven away by the Holy One, blessed be He, because He saw that the world could not endure without Torah.

The Holy One, blessed be He, arose and planted them

in those generations

in every generation and generation, and they are the insolent ones of the generation.

And Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said

to interpret:

“Who were cut off” —

it is written for blessing —

These are Torah scholars who cut themselves off from sleep

[they cut from their measure of sleep],

for

[on account of]

words of Torah

[Baḥ]

in this world.

And

the Holy One, blessed be He, reveals to them the secret of the river

[Baḥ]

in the World to Come, as it is stated: “A river of molten fire was its foundation.”

Samuel said to Ḥiyya bar Rav bar Aria:

Come, I will tell you a matter, from those excellent matters that your father used to say

[come and I will tell you some of the good things that your father used to say]:

And this is what he used to say:

Every day and every day ministering angels are created from the River of Fire, and they recite song, and cease to be

[after they recite song, they cease to be and disappear immediately].

As it is stated, “They are new every morning

[new angels, who are created every morning—by them]

great is Your faithfulness

[Your praise].”

And it disagrees,

he disagrees in these words with

the

words of

Rabbi Shmuel bar Naḥmani,

who holds that the angels are created through the speech of the Omnipresent, and do not emerge from the River of Fire.

For Rabbi Shmuel bar Naḥmani said in the name of Rabbi Yonatan: Every utterance that emerges from the mouth of the Holy One, blessed be He, creates one angel from it.

As it is stated: “By the word of the Lord —

the heavens were made.

And by the breath of His mouth —

all their host.”

The Gemara further interprets, moving from one matter to another concerning the same matter, the contradiction between the verses from Daniel and Song of Songs:

One verse

in the Book of Daniel

says: “His garment

the garment of the Holy One, blessed be He]

was like pure wool

[white like snow],

and the hair of His head like clean wool

[the hair of His head, as it were, like clean white wool].

But

on the other hand

it is written

in Song of Songs:

“His locks

the locks of His hair, as it were, of the Holy One, blessed be He] are

curls, black as a raven!”

It is not difficult: here

where the color of His hair is white like that of an old man—

in judgment’s session

[in the seat of judgment, R. H.].

Here

where the color of His hair is black like that of a young man—

in war.

For the Master said: You have none more beautiful in a session than an old man, and you have none more beautiful in war than a young man.

And the Gemara raises a contradiction within the aforementioned verse in Daniel itself:

One verse says:

I saw until thrones were cast down and set in place for judgment, and the Ancient of Days sat, and His garment was white as snow and the hair of His head like pure wool;

“His throne”

[this implies one throne]

was fiery flames

[flames of fire]; its wheels were burning fire [the wheels of the throne were burning fire]. Thus, the end of the verse implies that there is only one throne.

And one verse —

that is, the same verse at its beginning —

says: “Until thrones

[this implies two thrones]

were cast down, and the Ancient of Days sat.”

And we answer:

It is not difficult:

one throne

for Him, and

one throne

for David.

As it was taught: One for Him and one for David; these are the words of Rabbi Akiva.

Rabbi Yose the Galilean said to him: Akiva! Until when will you make the Divine Presence mundane

by seating a person beside Him?!

Rather,

the two thrones are:

one

of the thrones is designated

for judgment,

for the nations,

and one

is designated

for charity,

for Israel.

And the Gemara is uncertain: Did he

accept it from him

[did Rabbi Akiva accept the words of Rabbi Yose the Galilean],

or did he not accept it from him?

Come and hear

from the beraita that we learned: One throne

for judgment and

one throne

for charity; these are the words of Rabbi Akiva.

Thus, he accepted it from him.

Rabbi Elazar ben Azariah said to him: Akiva! What have you to do with aggada? Turn away from your words and go

[Baḥ]

to the laws of leprosy and tents!

Refrain from your words in aggada and turn to the laws of leprosy and tents, which are weighty, and in them you are sharp, but not in aggada.

Rather,

this is the matter of the two thrones:

one

of the thrones is designated

for a throne, and one

of the thrones is designated

for a footstool.

A throne —

in order

to sit upon it,

and

a footstool —

for His feet as a stool.

As it is stated: “The heavens —

are My throne, and the earth —

is My footstool.”

When

he came,

Rav Dimi,

from the Land of Israel to Babylonia,

he said: Isaiah cursed Israel with eighteen curses,

the prophet

against Israel,

he prophesied that eighteen calamities would come upon them.

And his mind was not appeased

by Isaiah

until he said to them this verse

[the verse written after the eighteen curses below]:

“The youth will act insolently toward the elder,

[the youth will act arrogantly toward the elder],

and the contemptible

[the despised one will act arrogantly toward]

the honored one.”

And the Gemara explains: Those

eighteen curses —

what are they?

As it is written: “For behold, the Lord, the Master of Hosts, removes from Jerusalem and from Judah:

a.

support;

b.

and support;

c.

every support of bread;

d.

and every support of water;

e.

a mighty man;

f.

and a man of war;

g.

a judge;

h.

and a prophet;

i.

and a diviner;

j.

and an elder;

k.

a captain of fifty;

l.

and one of dignified bearing;

m.

and a counselor;

n.

and a skilled craftsman;

o.

and one wise in secret speech;

p.

and I will appoint youths as their officers;

q.

and capricious ones will rule them;

r.

and the people will oppress one another, each man his fellow and each man his neighbor.”

And the Gemara explains the absence of the things described in the verse:

“Support”: these are masters of Scripture,

who will be lacking and will not exist.

“Support”: these are masters of Mishna, such as Rabbi Judah ben Tema and his colleagues.

Rav Pappa and the Sages disagreed about it:

One said: There were six hundred orders of Mishna

in their days.

And one said: There were seven hundred orders of Mishna

in their days.

“Every support of bread”: these are masters of Talmud,

upon whose ruling one can rely as upon reliance on bread [Rashi],

as it is stated: “Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine that I have mixed.”

“And every support of water”: these are masters of aggada, who draw a person’s heart like water through aggada.

“A mighty man”: this is one who possesses traditions,

who heard decisive halakhot from his teachers and they are fluent in his mouth.

“And a man of war”: this is one who knows how to debate in the war of Torah.

“A judge”: this is a judge who judges a true judgment truthfully.

“A prophet”: according to its plain meaning.

“A diviner”: this is a king, as it is stated: “Divination is on the lips of a king; in judgment his mouth will not transgress.”

“An elder”: this is one who is fit to sit in a session,

and to take counsel from him in every matter of wisdom.

“A captain of fifty”: Do not read “captain of fifty,” but “captain of fifths”; this is one who knows how to debate concerning the Five Books of the Torah.

Another matter: “captain of fifty”

that is

according to Rabbi Abbahu:

For Rabbi Abbahu said: From here

that they do not appoint a translator

[one who hears the teacher’s exposition and makes it heard to the public]

over the public anyone who is younger than

a son of

fifty years.

“And one of dignified bearing”: this is one for whose sake they bear the burden of his generation.

They bear the burden of his generation

above

the Holy One, blessed be He, shows honor to the generation for his sake]:

such as Rabbi Ḥanina ben Dosa.

They bear the burden of his generation

below

[the kings of the nations honor Israel for his sake]:

such as Rabbi Abbahu in the presence of the Caesar.

“A counselor”: one who knows how to intercalate years and establish months.

“And a wise man”: this is a student who makes his teachers wiser.

“A skilled craftsman”: when he begins with words of Torah, everyone becomes like the deaf,

who do not know how to speak.

“And one who understands”: this is one who understands one matter from another.

“One wise in secret speech”: this is one who is fit to have words of Torah that were given in secret entrusted to him.

For he is the head of the court, his heart is anxious within him, and he is fit to have the secrets of the Work of the Chariot entrusted to him [as above, 13a].

And the verse continues and says:

“And I will appoint youths as their officers.”

And the Gemara explains:

What is “And I will appoint youths as their officers”?

Rabbi Elazar said: These are people who are stripped of the mitzvot.

And afterward the prophet Isaiah says:

“And capricious ones will rule them”:

Rav Aḥa said

[the Masoret ha-Shas]:

These are foxes, sons of foxes

[foxes, sons of foxes].

And his mind was not appeased

by Isaiah the prophet

until he said to them, “The youth will act insolently toward the elder” —

these are people who are stripped of the mitzvot,

and they

will act insolently toward one who is filled with mitzvot like a pomegranate.

“And the contemptible toward the honored one” —

one will come who

finds transgressions

that are severe as though they were light, and will act insolently toward one who

finds transgressions

that are light as though they were severe.

Rav Katina said: Even at the time of its downfall

[its destruction]

the trustworthy people did not cease from them.

As it is stated

[in Isaiah, in the verse adjacent to the preceding verses cited from Isaiah]:

“For behold, the Lord, the Master, removes from Jerusalem and from Judah every support of bread.

For a man will seize his brother,

in

his father’s house,

saying:

“You have a garment,

you are knowledgeable in the chambers of Torah [as the Gemara will explain below], and therefore

a ruler

a teacher

you shall be for us,

and teach us Torah.

And first the Gemara interprets the verse, before it concludes the verse and the proof for Rav Katina’s statement:

“You have a garment”:

matters

of Torah

that people

cover themselves with like a garment

[people hide so that they will not be asked about them, because they are not knowledgeable in them], they

are under your hand!”

That is to say: you are indeed knowledgeable in them.

And the verse continues to describe the words of the one asking to learn Torah from a person whom he is convinced knows the Torah:

“And this stumbling block

is under your hand.”

What is “And this stumbling block”?

Matters,

the hidden reasons of the Torah,

upon which people do not stand

with complete clarity, to state them according to their halakha,

unless they stumble over them,

until they state them two or three times with error [that is, the hidden reasons of the Torah, Rashi, Shabbat 120a], and then they pay attention to stand and contemplate carefully the matters they are learning—they

are under your hand!

And therefore, “You shall be a ruler [rabbi and teacher] for us.”

And the verse continues to describe the response of the trustworthy man:

“He will swear

, the one who was asked to be a ruler will say,

on that day, saying: I will not be a healer, and in my house there is neither bread nor garment.

You shall not appoint me as ruler over the people!”

And the Gemara interprets the words of the trustworthy man:

“He will swear” —

“he will swear” is only an expression of an oath.

As it is stated

in the Ten Commandments:

“You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain.”

And so the trustworthy man swore:

“I will not be a healer” —

I was not one of those who occupy the seats of the beit-midrash!

I am not accustomed to being seated in the beit-midrash.

“And in my house there is neither bread nor garment” —

I possess neither Scripture, nor Mishna, nor Gemara.

Thus you have learned that the trustworthy people did not cease from Jerusalem. For he tells the truth and swears that he does not know Torah.

And we challenge this:

But perhaps there it is different,

for he tells the truth not because he is a trustworthy man, but because he fears that he will immediately be caught in a lie.

For if he had said to them, “I have learned”

[if he had lied and said: Indeed, I know and am fit to be a rabbi],

they would say to him, “Tell us”

[those asking would say to him: Tell us what you know]. And therefore he tells them the truth, and not because he is a trustworthy man?!

And the Gemara explains: If he were not a trustworthy man, he could have extricated himself honorably from them, for

he should have said,

he could have said about himself:

“I learned and forgot”

[Indeed, I was one of those who occupied the seats of the beit-midrash, and I learned Torah, but now I have forgotten my learning].

What

is meant by what he said,

“I will not be a healer”?

“I will not be a healer

of the benches of the beit-midrash

at all.

It is thereby proven that he is a trustworthy man, for he denied things with which he could have boasted without people discovering his lie.

And we challenge Rav Katina’s statement that the trustworthy people did not cease:

Is that so? But Rava said: Jerusalem was not destroyed until the trustworthy people ceased from it.

As it is stated: “Roam through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in its squares, whether you can find a man, whether there is one who performs justice, who seeks faithfulness, and I shall forgive her!”

Thus, even if they seek a trustworthy man, they will not find him?!

And we answer:

It is not difficult.