Bekhorot 8b (ח:) — the Talmud in English

And we answer:

Is it written "

from every beast and from every animal,"

so that we should interpret the intent of the verse as saying that the snake was cursed in the manner in which the animal was cursed in relation to the beast? But

it is written, “from every beast and from every animal,”

written

which implies:

“Cursed is he more than every beast that was cursed in relation to an animal.”

We nevertheless ask: Indeed, it is necessary that the intent of the verse is that he be cursed in the manner in which the beast was cursed in relation to the animal. But from where can it be said that the reference is to the curse of a large domesticated animal in relation to an animal, so that his curse is one to seven, like the curse of an impure large domesticated animal in relation to a cat,

and

yet

say: Just as a beast was cursed in relation to an animal one to three—and what is that?

[Which beast was cursed in relation to an animal one to three?]

A goat,

that is, a pure small domesticated animal, whose gestation period is five months,

in relation to a cat,

whose gestation period is fifty-two days,

so was he cursed in relation to a beast

[a pure small domesticated animal]

one to three, which would make his gestation period fifteen months

[fifteen months]!?

And we answer:

Alternatively,

“You are cursed”

more than every beast”

is written,

and this implies: The snake will be cursed more than the most cursed beast, namely, an impure large domesticated animal.

Alternatively: It is a curse; impose a curse upon him

[It was stated as a curse: impose a curse upon him], that is, since it is a curse, impose upon him the most severe curse that you can include within the verse.

He said

he asked

the Caesar asked Rabbi Yehoshua ben Ḥananya: How long does it take a snake to conceive and give birth,

that is, how long does it remain from conception until birth?

He said to him,

Rabbi Yehoshua:

Seven years!

The Caesar said to him:

But the elders of Athens bred them, and one gave birth after three years!?

Rabbi Yehoshua said to him:

Those snakes had already been pregnant for four years initially.

The Caesar said to him:

But they were engaging in intercourse!?

And if they had been pregnant, they would not have accepted a male, as animals and beasts ordinarily do!?

Rabbi Yehoshua said to him:

They

[the snakes]

also engage in intercourse

even during their pregnancy,

like human beings.

The Caesar said to him:

But surely they are wise,

the elders of Athens!? They certainly examined the matter and found that the snakes were not pregnant.

Rabbi Yehoshua said to him:

We are wiser than they are.

The Caesar said to him:

If you are wise, go defeat them

and bring them to me;

that is, he stipulated with them that if you defeat them, they would come with you, and bring them to me.

He said to him,

Rabbi Yehoshua:

How many are there?

He said to him:

Sixty men.

He said to him,

Rabbi Yehoshua:

Make me a ship that has sixty rooms, and each room has sixty seats. [The Caesar asked Rabbi Yehoshua: How long does the fetus remain in the snake’s womb until it is born? Rabbi Yehoshua answered him: Seven years. The Caesar wondered: But the elders of Athens bred pairs of snakes, and one gave birth after three years!? Rabbi Yehoshua answered him: Those snakes were already four years into their pregnancy. The Caesar wondered: But they bred them and engaged in intercourse; whereas during pregnancy, animals and beasts do not accept a male!? Rabbi Yehoshua said to him: Snakes are not like other animals, and they engage in intercourse even during pregnancy, like human beings. The Caesar still wondered: But the elders of Athens are wise!? Rabbi Yehoshua said to him: We are wiser than they are. The Caesar said to him: If you are wise, go and defeat them in a debate of wisdom, and bring them to me—that is, stipulate with them that if you defeat them, they will come with you, and bring them to me. Rabbi Yehoshua asked the Caesar: How many men are they? The Caesar answered him: Sixty men. Rabbi Yehoshua said to the Caesar: Make me a ship with sixty rooms, and in each room sixty seats.]

The emperor asked Rabbi Yehoshua: How long does the fetus remain in the snake’s womb before it is born?

Rabbi Yehoshua answered him: Seven years.

The emperor wondered: But the elders of Athens made pairs of snakes mate, and one gave birth after three years!?

Rabbi Yehoshua answered him: Those snakes had already been pregnant for four years.

The emperor wondered: But they made them mate, and they engaged in intercourse; whereas during pregnancy, animals do not accept a male!?

Rabbi Yehoshua said to him: Snakes are unlike other animals, and they engage in intercourse even during pregnancy, like human beings.

The emperor still wondered: But the elders of Athens are wise!?

Rabbi Yehoshua said to him: We are wiser than they are.

The emperor said to him: If you are wise, go and defeat them in a debate on matters of wisdom, and bring them to me; that is, make an agreement with them that if you defeat them, they will come with you, and bring them to me.

Rabbi Yehoshua asked the emperor: How many men are they?

The emperor answered him: Sixty people.

Rabbi Yehoshua said to the emperor: Make me a ship with sixty rooms, and in each room sixty chairs.

He made it for him;

and Rabbi Yehoshua descended in the ship to Athens, and

when he arrived there, he went to the slaughterhouse and found there a certain man who

was

slaughtering animals. He said to him,

Rabbi Yehoshua:

Is your head for sale?

He said to him,

the butcher:

Yes!

He said to him,

Rabbi Yehoshua:

For how much?

He said to him: For half a zuz!

He gave him

Rabbi Yehoshua gave the butcher half a zuz.

At the end he said to him,

Rabbi Yehoshua:

Give me your head!

He gave him

one

animal’s head.

He said to him,

Rabbi Yehoshua: Why,

did I say to you, “the head of an animal”!?

Yet

I said to you, “your head.”

He further

said to him,

Rabbi Yehoshua:

If you want me to let you go, walk

before me, and

show me the entrance to the house of the Athenians.

The butcher said to him:

The butcher:

I am afraid, for anyone who shows it is killed.

He said to him: Carry a bundle of reeds, and when you reach

there, stand it up as though you are resting. [The Caesar indeed ordered such a ship to be built for him, and Rabbi Yehoshua descended in it to Athens, the place where the sages resided. When he arrived there—and did not know where they resided within the city—he entered a slaughterhouse and found a man there cutting up an animal. Rabbi Yehoshua asked the butcher: Is your head for sale? The butcher answered him: Yes. Rabbi Yehoshua asked: For how much? He answered him: For half a zuz. Rabbi Yehoshua gave him what he requested, and asked for his head; the butcher gave him the animal’s head. Rabbi Yehoshua said to him: Did I say that I wanted to buy the animal’s head? Did you not say that I meant your head!? If you want me to let you live, walk before me and show me the entrance to the place where the sages reside. The butcher said to him: I am afraid, since they kill anyone who shows the place where they reside. Rabbi Yehoshua said to the butcher: Carry a bundle of reeds on your shoulders and go there, and when you reach that place, pretend that you are about to rest. In this way I will know that there is the entrance to the house of the elders of Athens.]

Indeed, the emperor ordered such a ship to be built for him; Rabbi Yehoshua traveled in it to Athens, where the sages lived. When he arrived there—and did not know where in the city they lived—he entered a slaughterhouse and found a man cutting up an animal.

Rabbi Yehoshua asked the butcher: Is your head for sale?

The butcher answered him: Yes.

Rabbi Yehoshua asked: For how much?

He answered him: For half a zuz.

Rabbi Yehoshua gave him the amount he requested and asked for his head, and the butcher gave him the animal’s head.

Rabbi Yehoshua said to him: Did I say that I wanted to buy the animal’s head? You said “your head”! If you want me to let you live, walk ahead of me and show me the entrance to the place where the sages sit.

The butcher said to him: I am afraid, because they kill anyone who shows where they sit.

Rabbi Yehoshua said to the butcher: Carry a bundle of reeds on your shoulders and go there. When you reach that place, pretend that you are stopping to rest; then I will know that it is the entrance to the house of the elders of Athens.

He went,

Rabbi Yehoshua,

and found guards inside,

who guarded against a stranger entering,

and guards outside,

who guarded against one of the elders going outside.

They would scatter bran or dust on the threshold of the room, so that a person’s footprints would be visible upon it.

If they saw—

the elders of Athens—

the footprint of one entering

of a stranger,

they would kill the

guards

inside

who had neglected their duty,

and

if they saw a footprint

of one exiting, they would kill the

guards

outside.

Rabbi Yehoshua devised a stratagem and entered onto the threshold,

and

turned one of his sandals around,

so that while he stood on the threshold, one footprint appeared to lead inward and one outward, and

they killed them all,

for it appeared to the elders that one person had entered and another had exited. [ Rabbi Yehoshua saw that there were ambushes guarding the entrance from within, so that no stranger would enter, and ambushes guarding outside, so that none of the household would leave. The elders would see on the threshold of the house—on which they had scattered bran or dust so that the footprints of those entering and exiting would be visible—whether a stranger had entered or one of them had left, by examining the direction of the footprints on the threshold, whether they led outward or inward. When they found footprints leading inward—which necessarily meant that a stranger had entered—they would kill the inner guards who had betrayed their duty; and when the footprints led outward, they would kill the outer guards who had betrayed their duty. Rabbi Yehoshua devised a stratagem and turned one of his sandals around, so that while he stood on the threshold it appeared that someone had entered and exited simultaneously. When the elders saw this, they killed all the guards, since it appeared to them that all of them had betrayed their duty.]

Rabbi Yehoshua saw that there were ambushes guarding the entrance from within, so that no stranger would enter, and ambushes guarding outside, so that none of the household would leave. The elders would see on the threshold of the house—on which they had scattered bran or dust so that the footprints of those entering and exiting would be visible—whether a stranger had entered or one of them had left, by examining the direction of the footprints on the threshold, whether they led outward or inward. When they found footprints leading inward—which necessarily meant that a stranger had entered—they would kill the inner guards who had betrayed their duty; and when the footprints led outward, they would kill the outer guards who had betrayed their duty.

Rabbi Yehoshua devised a stratagem and turned one of his sandals around, so that while he stood on the threshold it appeared that someone had entered and exited simultaneously. When the elders saw this, they killed all the guards, since it appeared to them that all of them had betrayed their duty.

He went,

Rabbi Yehoshua,

and found

that

the young men were seated above

and

the elders below. He said:

Rabbi Yehoshua:

If I greet these

[the young men],

these will kill me

[the elders],

thinking: We are superior, for we are stronger, while they are youngsters. And if I greet these

[the elders]

first, these will kill me, saying: We are superior, for we are above, while they are below.

And therefore

he said to them,

Rabbi Yehoshua:

Peace to all the sages! [ Rabbi Yehoshua proceeded and found that the young men were seated above and the elders below. Rabbi Yehoshua said to himself: If I greet these young men, the elders will kill me, for they will say: We are elders and they are young. And if I first greet the elders, the young men will kill me, for they will say: We are seated above, while they are below. Therefore Rabbi Yehoshua said: “Peace to all the sages.”]

Rabbi Yehoshua went and found that the young men were seated above and the elders below. Rabbi Yehoshua said to himself: If I greet the young men, the elders will kill me, because they will say: “We are elders and they are young.” If I first greet the elders, the young men will kill me, because they will say: “We are seated above, whereas they are below.” Therefore Rabbi Yehoshua said: “Greetings to all the sages.”

They said to him,

the elders to Rabbi Yehoshua:

What is your occupation?

He said to them,

Rabbi Yehoshua:

I am a Jewish sage,

and

I wish to learn wisdom from you.

They said to him:

If so, let us examine you.

He said to them,

Rabbi Yehoshua:

Agreed! If you defeat me, do with me whatever you wish; and if I defeat you, come eat bread with me on the ship. [They asked him what he did there. He said to them: I am the sage of the Jews, and I wish to learn words of wisdom from you. They said to him: If so, let us examine you. Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: I agree; if you defeat me, do with me as you wish, and if I defeat you, come eat bread with me on the ship.]

Those seated there asked him: What is your occupation? He said to them: I am the Jewish sage, and I wish to learn words of wisdom from you. They said to him: If so, let us examine you! Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: I agree; if you defeat me, do whatever you wish with me, and if I defeat you, come eat bread with me on the ship.

They said to him: A certain man goes and seeks a wife, but they do not give her to him. What does he see in going to seek one who is superior to her!?

For apparently they certainly will not give her to him.

Rabbi Yehoshua took

a needle,

and thrust it below—

it did not enter; he raised it and thrust it above—

and it entered. He said: This too may happen to one who finds his destined mate. [The sages of Athens asked Rabbi Yehoshua: A man sought to marry a woman and they refused to give her to him. What did he see in going to seek a woman of higher status than the first, when surely they would refuse him all the more!? Rabbi Yehoshua took a needle and thrust it into the lower part of a wall, but it did not enter. He then raised his hand and thrust it into a higher place, and it did enter. Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: This man too is acting properly if he seeks a woman of higher status than the first, for perhaps she is his destined mate.]

The sages of Athens asked Rabbi Yehoshua: A man sought to marry a woman and they refused to give her to him. What did he see ]

in going to seek a woman of greater lineage than the first? Surely they would be even less likely to give her to him! Rabbi Yehoshua took a needle and thrust it into the bottom of a wall, but it did not enter. He then raised his hand and thrust it into a higher place, and it entered. Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: This man is also acting well if he seeks a woman of greater lineage than the first, for perhaps she is his destined mate.

They asked him another question:

A man who lends money and collects it by seizing property

from purchasers,

what does he see in lending again!?

Rabbi Yehoshua said to them:

Rabbi Yehoshua:

A man goes to a marsh, cuts a first bundle of reeds but cannot lift it; he then cuts another bundle and places it upon the first, until someone happens to come along and lift it for him. [They further asked him: A man lent money but was unable to collect it from the borrower, until he had to seize property from purchasers who had bought it from the borrower. What did he see in lending more money!? Rabbi Yehoshua answered them: This is analogous to a man who went to a marsh to cut reeds. He made a bundle but could not lift it onto his shoulder; nevertheless he continued cutting and placed bundle upon bundle, because he thought that in the meantime someone would come and load his bundles for him.]

They said to him: Tell us words of nonsense [ Tell us words of foolishness]!

They asked him further: A man lent money but could not collect it from the borrower, until he had to collect it from purchasers who had bought property from the borrower. Why did he continue lending money? Rabbi Yehoshua answered them: It is comparable to a man who went to a marsh to cut reeds. He made a bundle but could not lift it onto his shoulder. Nevertheless, he continued cutting and placed one bundle on top of another, because he thought that meanwhile someone might come along and load his bundles for him.

So too here: Although he encountered an untrustworthy person, he should lend to another, until he finds a trustworthy person and conducts business with him.

They said to him: Tell us words of nonsense

[tell us words of foolishness]!

He said to them,

Rabbi Yehoshua:

There was a certain mule that gave birth, and a note was hanging from it, on which it was written:

“He is owed one hundred thousand zuz at my father’s house.”

They said to him,

the sages of Athens:

But can a mule give birth!?

He said to them: These are the words of nonsense. [ Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: It happened that a mule gave birth, and a document was hanging around the offspring’s neck stating that he was owed one hundred thousand zuz at his father’s house. The sages of Athens wondered: Can a mule give birth!? He said to them: These are words of foolishness.]

Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: There was an incident involving a mule that gave birth, and a document was hanging from the offspring’s neck stating that it owed one hundred thousand zuz at my father’s house. The sages of Athens were astonished and said to him: Can a mule give birth!? He said to them: These are the nonsensical stories.

They asked him another question:

When salt spoils, with what is it salted?

He said to them: With the offspring of a mule.

They said to him:

But is there an offspring of a mule?

He said to them:

And does salt spoil!? [They further asked him: When salt spoils, with what is it repaired? He answered them: With the afterbirth of a mule. They wondered: Is there an afterbirth for a mule, when it does not give birth!? He answered them: Does salt spoil!?]

They asked him further: Salt that has spoiled—what can restore it? He answered them: A mule’s placenta. They wondered: Is there a placenta for a mule, when it does not give birth!? He answered them: Does salt spoil!?

The elders of Athens said to him:

Build us a house in the air of the world!

Rabbi Yehoshua

pronounced

[the explicit]

Name,

and suspended himself

between heaven and earth. He said to them: Bring up bricks and mortar for me,

and when you fulfill my request, I too will fulfill yours. [They said to him: Build us a house in the air of the world! Rabbi Yehoshua pronounced the Name and was suspended between earth and heaven. He said to them: Give me bricks and mortar so that I can build it; and when you fulfill my request, I will fulfill yours as well.]

They said to him: Build us a house in the air of the world! Rabbi Yehoshua uttered the explicit Name and suspended himself between the ground and the sky. He said to them: Give me bricks and mortar so that I can build it; and when you fulfill my request, I will also fulfill yours.

They asked him another question:

Where is the center of the world?

He raised

his finger

and

said to them: Here! They said to him: Who says so!?

He said to them: Bring ropes and measure it. [They further asked him: Where is the center of the world? He raised his finger and said: Here is the center of the world! They asked him: How do we know that this is so? He said to them: Bring ropes and measure it.]

They said to him further: We have a well in the wilderness; bring it into the city! He said to them: Make me ropes from the branched fibers of palm trees

They further said to him:

We have a well in the wilderness; bring it into the city! He said to them: Twist ropes for me from branched fibers

[which is impossible]

and I will bring it in. [They said to him: We have a well in the wilderness; bring it into the city. He said to them: Make me ropes from branched fibers—which is impossible—and I will bring it in.]

We have a broken millstone; sew it!

They further said to him:

We have a broken millstone—

sew it!

Rabbi Yehoshua took

a piece from it

and

threw it to them. He said

to them:

Spin threads for me from it and I will sew it. [They said to him: We have a broken millstone; sew it! Rabbi Yehoshua took a piece from the millstone and threw it to them, saying: Make threads from the millstone—as women draw threads from cloth in order to sew it—and I will sew the millstone with them.]

They asked him another question:

They asked him further:

A bed of knives—with what does one reap it?

He said to them:

With a donkey’s horn.

They said to him:

But is there a horn on a donkey!?

He said to them:

And is there a bed of knives!? [They asked him: A bed of knives—with what does one harvest it? He said to them: With a donkey’s horn. They wondered: Does a donkey have a horn!? He answered them: Is there a bed of knives!?]

He then

brought him two eggs. They said to him: Which is from a black hen, and which is from a white hen?

He brought

them two cheeses

and

said to them: Which is from a black goat, and which is from a white goat? [They further brought him two eggs and asked him: Which is from a black hen and which is from a white hen? In response, he brought them two cheeses and asked them: Which is from a black goat and which is from a white goat?]

said to them: Which is from a black goat, and which is from a white goat?

They further asked him:

They asked him further:

A chick that dies inside an egg—where does its breath emerge from?

He said to them:

From where it entered,

from there

it exits! [They asked him about a chick that died inside its egg while the egg remained whole: If so, from where did its breath emerge? He answered them: From where it entered, from there it exited—that is, just as it entered an intact egg, so it left it.]

They asked him:

Show us an object whose benefit is not worth the damage it causes! Bring

Rabbi Yehoshua

a

mat—

spread it out,

and

it could not fit through the doorway. He said to them:

Rabbi Yehoshua: In that case,

bring axes and pickaxes

and

demolish

the wall, and

this is the object

[the mat]

whose benefit is not worth the damage it causes. [He showed them an object whose benefit was not worth the damage it caused: He brought them a mat and spread it out. When they tried to bring it through the gate while it was spread out, it could not enter because of its width. Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: Bring tools and demolish the wall so that the mat can enter; there is your object whose benefit is not worth the damage it causes.]

After Rabbi Yehoshua defeated them in debate, he devised a stratagem to bring them to the Caesar, as he had been instructed, and so he did:

Once Rabbi Yehoshua had defeated them in debate, he cleverly brought them to the emperor, as he had been commanded, and this is what he did:

He brought them [

brought them] Rabbi Yehoshua brought each one individually

on a ship [

to the ship], and in accordance with the agreement he had made with them in the event that he would win; and he placed each one in a different room,

each one, upon seeing sixty chairs, said: “All my colleagues have come here” [

each one of them, upon seeing in the room into which he had been brought sixty chairs, was certain that his other colleagues would be brought to that room] —

He said to the ship [

Rabbi Yehoshua said to the ship’s captain]:

Release your ship [

Release the anchor of your ship] and sail!

As

the sages of Athens

came

Rabbi Yehoshua

took earth from their earth [

from the earth of their land];