Bekhorot 8b — the Talmud in English

And we answer:

Is it written “

from every animal and from every beast,”

so that we must interpret the intention of the verse as being that the serpent should be cursed in the manner in which the animal was cursed by the beast? But

“from every beast and from every animal”

is written,

which means:

“Cursed is he more than every beast that was cursed by an animal.”

And we still ask: Indeed, it is compelled that the intention of the verse is that he be cursed in the manner in which a beast was cursed by an animal. But from where is it derived that the intention is to the curse of a large domesticated animal by an animal, and it follows that his curse is one to seven, like the curse of an impure large domesticated animal by a cat,

and

yet

say: Just as a beast was cursed by an animal one to three—and what is that? [

Which beast was cursed by an animal one to three?]

A goat,

that is, a pure small domesticated animal, whose gestation period is five months,

by a cat,

whose gestation period is fifty-two days,

so he was cursed by a beast [

a pure small domesticated animal]

one to three, so that it would be fifteen months [

fifteen months]?!

And we answer:

If you wish, say: “

You are cursed

more than every beast”

is written,

and it means: The serpent will be cursed more than the beast that is the most cursed, and that is an impure large domesticated animal.

If you wish, say: It is a curse; cast upon him a curse [

It was said for the purpose of cursing: cast a curse upon him], that is, since it is a curse, cast upon him the most severe curse that you can include in the verse.

He said

he asked

the Caesar Rabbi Joshua ben Hananiah: How long does a serpent gestate and give birth,

that is, how long does it remain from conception until birth?

He said to him

Rabbi Joshua:

For seven years!

The Caesar said to him:

But the elders of Athens mated them, and it gave birth after three years!?

Rabbi Joshua said to him:

Those had already been pregnant for four years from the outset.

The Caesar said to him:

But they were engaging in intercourse!?

And if they had been pregnant, they would not have accepted a male, as animals and beasts do not do so during pregnancy?!

Rabbi Joshua said to him:

They [

the serpents]

also engage in intercourse

even during their pregnancy,

like a human being.

The Caesar said to him:

But they are wise,

the elders of Athens!? Surely they examined them and found that they were not pregnant.

Rabbi Joshua said to him:

We are wiser than they.

The Caesar said to him:

If you are wise, go, defeat them

and bring them to me;

that is, make an agreement with them that if you defeat them, they will come with you, and bring them to me.

He said to him,

Rabbi Joshua:

How many are they?

He said to him:

Sixty men.

Rabbi Joshua said to him:

Rabbi Joshua:

Make me a ship that has sixty rooms, and each room has sixty chairs.

The Caesar asked Rabbi Joshua: How long does the fetus remain in the serpent’s womb until it is born?

Rabbi Joshua answered him: For seven years.

The Caesar was astonished: But the elders of Athens mated pairs of serpents, and it gave birth after three years?!

Rabbi Joshua answered him: Those serpents had already been after four years of pregnancy.

The Caesar was astonished: But they mated them and engaged in intercourse, whereas during pregnancy animals and beasts do not accept a male?!

Rabbi Joshua said to him: The serpents are unlike other animals, and they engage in intercourse even during pregnancy, like human beings.

The Caesar was still astonished: But the elders of Athens are wise!?

Rabbi Joshua said to him: We are wiser than they.

The Caesar said to him: If you are wise, go and defeat them in a debate concerning words of wisdom, and bring them to me; that is, make an agreement with them that if you defeat them, they will come with you, and bring them to me.

Rabbi Joshua asked the Caesar: How many people are they?

The Caesar answered him: Sixty men.

Rabbi Joshua said to the Caesar: Make me a ship that has sixty rooms, and in each room sixty chairs.

He made it for him;

and Rabbi Joshua descended in the ship to Athens, and

when he arrived there, he entered a slaughterhouse and found a certain man who

was

slaughtering an animal; Rabbi Joshua said to him

Rabbi Joshua:

Is your head for sale?

The butcher said to him

the butcher:

Yes!

Rabbi Joshua said to him

Rabbi Joshua:

For how much?

He said to him: For half a zuz!

Rabbi Joshua gave him

Rabbi Joshua gave the butcher half a zuz.

Afterward Rabbi Joshua said to him

Rabbi Joshua:

Give me your head!

He gave him

one

animal’s head.

Rabbi Joshua said to him

Rabbi Joshua: Why,

did I tell you “the head of an animal”!?

But

I told you your head.

He further

said to him

Rabbi Joshua:

If you wish me to leave you alone, walk

before me, and

show me the entrance to the house of the Athenians.

The butcher said to him

the butcher:

I am afraid, for they kill anyone who shows it.

He said to him: Carry a bundle of reeds, and when you arrive

there, stand it upright as one who is resting.

Indeed, the Caesar ordered such a ship to be built for him; and Rabbi Joshua descended in it to Athens, the place where the sages dwelled. When he arrived there—and did not know the place where they dwelled within the city—he entered a slaughterhouse and found a man cutting up an animal.

Rabbi Joshua asked the butcher: Is your head standing for sale?

The butcher answered him: Indeed.

Rabbi Joshua asked: For how much?

He answered him: For half a zuz.

Rabbi Joshua gave him what he requested, and asked for his head, and the butcher gave him the animal’s head.

Rabbi Joshua said to him: Did I say that I wanted to buy the animal’s head? I said your head! And if you wish me to leave you alone, walk before me and show me the entrance to the place where the sages sit.

The butcher said to him: I am afraid, for they kill anyone who shows their place of residence.

Rabbi Joshua said to the butcher: Carry a bundle of reeds on your shoulders, and go there, and when you reach that place, pretend that you are about to rest; through this I will know that there is the entrance to the house of the elders of Athens.

Rabbi Joshua went,

Rabbi Joshua,

and found guards inside,

who guarded so that no stranger should enter,

and guards outside,

who guarded so that none of the elders should go outside—

And they would scatter bran or dust on the threshold of the room, so that a person’s footsteps would be discernible on it.

If they saw—

the elders of Athens—

the foot of one entering

of a stranger,

they would kill the

guards

inside

who had failed in their duty,

and

if they saw a foot

going out, they would kill the

guards

outside.

Rabbi Joshua acted cleverly and entered onto the threshold,

and

turned over one of his sandals

so that while he stood on the threshold, one footstep appeared to be going inward and one footstep outward, and

he killed them all,

for it appeared to the elders that one person had entered and another had gone out.

Rabbi Joshua saw that there were ambushers guarding the entrance from inside so that no stranger should enter, and ambushers guarding outside so that none of the household should go outside. The elders would see on the threshold of the house—for they had scattered bran or dust on it so that the footsteps of those entering and leaving would be discernible—whether a stranger had entered or one of them had gone out, by examining the footsteps on the threshold, whether their direction was outward or inward. When they found footsteps directed inward—and it necessarily meant that a stranger had entered there—they would kill the inner guards who had betrayed their duty; and if the footsteps were directed outward, they would kill the outer guards who had betrayed their duty—

Rabbi Joshua acted cleverly and turned over one of his sandals, so that when he stood on the threshold, entry and exit would appear simultaneously. When the elders saw this, they killed all the guards, for it appeared to them that all of them had betrayed their duty.

Rabbi Joshua went

Rabbi Joshua

and found

that

the youths were seated above

and

the elders below; Rabbi Joshua said

Rabbi Joshua:

If I give greetings to these [

the youths],

these will kill me [

the elders],

thinking: We are superior, for we are older and they are youngsters; but if I give greetings to these [

the elders],

these will kill me, saying: We are superior, for we are above and they are below;

and therefore

he said to them

Rabbi Joshua:

Greetings to all the sages!

Rabbi Joshua went and found there that the youths were seated above and the elders below. Rabbi Joshua said in his heart: If I give greetings to these youths, the elders will kill me, for they will say: Here we are elders and they are youths. And if I first give greetings to the elders, the youths will kill me, for they will say: Here we are seated above, whereas they are below. Therefore Rabbi Joshua said: “Greetings to all the sages.”

They said to him

the elders to Rabbi Joshua:

What is your occupation?

He said to them

Rabbi Joshua:

I am a Jewish sage,

and

I wish to learn wisdom from you;

they said to him:

If so, shall we test you?

He said to them

Rabbi Joshua:

Agreed! If you defeat me, do whatever you wish to me; but if I defeat you, eat bread with me on the ship.

Those seated there asked him: What is your occupation? He said to them: I am the sage of the Jews, and I wish to learn words of wisdom from you. They said to him: If so, let us test you! Rabbi Joshua said to them: I agree, and if you defeat me, do with me whatever you wish, but if I defeat you, come eat bread with me on the ship.

They said to him: What should be done to a certain man who goes and seeks a wife, but they do not give one to him? Why should he go to a place where they are more distinguished than she is!? They said to him: That man who goes and seeks a woman and they do not give her to him, what does he see in going to a place where they are more distinguished than she!?

For seemingly, all the more so they will not give her to him

; Rabbi Joshua took

Rabbi Joshua

a needle and pushed its lower end in—

it did not enter; he raised its upper end and pushed it in—

and it entered; he said: This one too may happen to be his destined mate.

The sages of Athens asked Rabbi Joshua: A man who sought to marry a woman, and they refused to give her to him, what did he see in going and seeking a woman of better lineage than the first, when surely they would all the more so not give her to him?! Rabbi Joshua took a needle and stuck it into the wall at its bottom, and it did not enter. Then he raised his hand and stuck it into a higher place—and indeed it was stuck. Rabbi Joshua said to them: This man too does well if he seeks a woman of better lineage than the first, for perhaps she is his destined mate.

And they asked him further:

A man who lends and collects from purchasers,

from purchasers,

what does he see in lending again!?

Rabbi Joshua said to them

Rabbi Joshua:

A man goes to a marsh, cuts a first bundle of reeds but cannot lift it; he then cuts another and places it upon it, until a person happens to come and lift it for him.

And here too: Although he encountered an untrustworthy person, he should continue and lend to another, until he finds a trustworthy person and conducts business with him.

They said to him: Tell us words of nonsense [ Tell us words of foolishness]!

They asked him further: A man lent money but could not collect it from the borrower, until he had to collect it from purchasers who had bought property from the borrower. Why did he continue lending money? Rabbi Yehoshua answered them: It is comparable to a man who went to a marsh to cut reeds. He made a bundle but could not lift it onto his shoulder. Nevertheless, he continued cutting and placed one bundle on top of another, because he thought that meanwhile someone might come along and load his bundles for him.

So too here: Although he encountered an untrustworthy person, he will continue lending to others until he finds a trustworthy person with whom he can conduct business.

He said to them

Rabbi Joshua:

There was a certain mule that gave birth, and a note was hanging from it, and written on it was “

who collects from my father’s house one hundred thousand zuzim”

; the sages of Athens said to him

the sages of Athens:

But does a mule give birth!?

He said to them: These are the words of nonsense.

Rabbi Joshua said to them: There was an incident involving a mule that gave birth, and a document was hanging from the offspring’s neck, and it stated that he had a debt payable to him at my father’s house of one hundred thousand zuzim. The sages of Athens were astonished at him: Does a mule give birth?! He said to them: These are the words of foolishness.

They asked him further:

When salt goes bad, with what is it salted?

He said to them: With a mule’s placenta;

they said to him:

But is there a placenta for a mule?

He said to them:

And does salt go bad!?

They asked him further: What is spoiled salt restored with? He answered them: With the afterbirth of a mule. They were astonished at him: Is there an afterbirth for a mule, when it does not give birth?! He answered them: Does spoiled salt exist?!

The elders of Athens said to him:

Build us a house in the air of the world! Rabbi Joshua said

Rabbi Joshua

the

[the explicit]

Name

hung

himself

between the firmament and the earth, and said to them: Bring up to me bricks and clay,

and when you fulfill my request, I too will fulfill your request.

They said to him: Build us a house in the air of the world! Rabbi Joshua pronounced a Name and hung himself between the ground and the heavens, and said to them: Give me bricks and mortar so that I may build; and when you fulfill my request, I will fulfill your request as well.

They asked him further:

Where is the center of the world?

He raised

his finger

and

said to them: Here! They said to him: And who says so!?

He said to them: Bring ropes and measure it.

They asked him further: Where is the center of the world? He raised his finger and said: Here is the center of the world! They asked him: From where do we know that this is so? He said to them: Bring ropes and measure.

They said to him further:

We have a well in the wilderness; bring it into the city! He said to them: Make me twisted ropes [

which is impossible]

and I will bring it in.

They said to him: We have a well in the wilderness; bring it up to the city. He said to them: Make me ropes from spun fibers—which is impossible—and I will bring it up.

They said to him further:

We have millstones that are broken—

sew them! Rabbi Joshua took

Rabbi Joshua

a piece from them

and

threw it to them; he said

to them:

Spin thread for me from it and I will sew them.

They said to him: We have broken millstones; sew them, please! Rabbi Joshua took a piece from the millstones and threw it to them, and said: Make threads for me from the millstones—as women take threads from cloth in order to sew it—and I will sew the millstones with them.

They asked him further:

With what does one reap a bed of knives?

He said to them:

With a donkey’s horn;

they said to him:

But is there a horn for a donkey!?

He said to them:

And is there a bed of knives!?

They asked him: A bed of knives—with what does one reap it? He said to them: With a donkey’s horn. They were astonished at him: But is there a horn for a donkey!? He answered them: And is there a bed of knives?!

They brought him two eggs and said to him:

Which is from a black hen, and which is from a white hen?

He brought

them two cheeses,

and

said to them: Which is from a black goat, and which is from a white goat?

They brought him two more eggs and asked him: Which is from a black hen and which is from a white hen? In response, he brought them two cheeses and asked them: Which is from a black goat and which is from a white goat?

They asked him further:

And a chick that dies inside an egg, from where does its breath emerge!?

He said to them:

From where it entered,

from there

it emerges!

They asked him about a chick that died inside its egg while the egg remained whole: If so, from where did its breath emerge? He answered them: From the place where it entered, from there it emerged; that is, just as it entered the whole egg, so it came out from it.

They requested of him:

Show us a utensil whose value is not equal to the loss it causes! Bring

Rabbi Joshua

a mat

—

spread it out,

and

it did not fit through the gate; he said to them

Rabbi Joshua: If so,

bring axes and a pickaxe

and

demolish it,

the wall, and

this is the utensil [

the mat]

whose value is not equal to its loss.

He showed them a utensil whose value was not equal to the loss it caused: He brought them a mat and spread it out, and when they tried to bring it through the gate while it was spread out, it did not enter because of its width. Rabbi Joshua said to them: Bring tools and demolish the wall, so that the mat may enter; there you have a utensil whose value is not equal to the loss it causes.

After Rabbi Joshua defeated them in debate, Rabbi Joshua acted cleverly to bring them to the Caesar as he had ordered him, and so he did:

He brought them

each one individually] Rabbi Joshua

onto a ship

onto the ship], and in accordance with the agreement that he had made with them in case he won; and he put each one in a different room,

each one, when he saw sixty chairs, said: “All my colleagues have come here”

each one of them, when he saw in that room into which he had been brought that sixty chairs had been placed, was certain that the rest of his colleagues would be brought into that room] —

He said to the ship’s captain

Rabbi Joshua said to the ship’s captain]:

Release your ship

release the anchor of your ship] and sail!

As the sages of Athens were coming,

the sages of Athens,

he took

Rabbi Joshua

dust from their dust

from the soil in their land];