Bava Batra 4a — the Talmud in English

He returned to him a wreath of nettles,

Herod placed around Bava ben Buta’s eyes a crown made of the skin of a hedgehog. Until eventually

they pierced his eyes,

the thorns pierced his eyes, and he became blind.

One day,

one day

he came and sat before him,

Herod came and sat before him and tried to hear what Bava ben Buta thought about him.

He said

Herod

“See, master,

may the master see,

this evil slave,

that evil slave [Herod, and he was saying this about himself, since Bava ben Buta could not see and could not discern that Herod himself was speaking thus],

what is he doing,

what is he doing!”

He said to him

Bava ben Buta:

“What shall I do to him,

what shall I do to him?”

He said to him: “Let the master curse him,

let the master curse him!”

He said to him

Bava ben Buta:

“It is written

in Ecclesiastes [chapter 10]: “

Even in your thoughts

even in your thoughts],

do not curse a king.”

He said to him

Herod:

“This one,

this Herod

is he not a king!

for he is disqualified from kingship.

He said to him:

even if it is as you say, he may nevertheless not be cursed, because,

and let him be,

he is at least

merely a wealthy man, and it is written,

and concerning him too it is written later in that verse:

“And in your bedchambers, do not curse a wealthy man.”

And he added and said to him:

“And let him be nothing but a prince,

even if he is only a prince and not a king,

and it is written

in Exodus 22:

“And a prince among your people you shall not curse,”

you shall not curse.

He said to him

Herod: Did the Sages not expound specifically

“who performs the deed of your people,”

that only a prince who fulfills the mitzvot, him it is forbidden to curse,

and this one,

Herod,

is he not one who performs the deed of your people

but is an evildoer!”

He said to him

Bava ben Buta:

“I am afraid of him,”

I am afraid of him.

He said to him

Herod:

“There is no person who will go and tell him,

there is no person here who will go and tell him that you cursed him. For

you and I are sitting,

only you and I are sitting here, and no one is listening.

He said to him: “It is written

in Ecclesiastes [chapter 10]:

“For a bird of the heavens will carry the voice, and a winged creature will tell the matter.”

And I am not prepared to endanger myself! Finally,

he said to him

Herod:

“It is I,

I am the one speaking with you.

Had I known

had I known

that the Sages were so careful,

that the Sages were so careful in their words,

I would not have killed them,

I would not have killed them.” Herod asked:

“Now,

now that I have killed them,

what is the remedy of that man?”

what is the remedy of that man? And he was asking about himself, for he had killed all the Sages of Israel.

He said to him

Herod:

“He extinguished the light of the world,

he killed the Sages who study Torah,

as it is written

in Proverbs 6:

“For a mitzva is a lamp and Torah is light.” He should go and occupy himself with the light of the world

by building the Temple,

as it is written,

as it is written concerning it [Isaiah 2]:

“And all the nations shall flow toward it,”

“flow” is an expression of light. All the nations will go by its light.

There are those who say: This is what he said to him,

there are those who say that this is what Herod said to him:

“He blinded the eye of the world,

he killed the Sages and pierced the eyes of Bava ben Buta. And the Sages are the eyes of the world,

as it is written

in Numbers [chapter 15]:

“And it shall be, if it be from the eyes of the congregation”

He should go and occupy himself with the eye of the world

in the Temple,

as it is written

concerning it [Ezekiel 24]:

“Behold, I profane My Sanctuary, the pride of your strength, the desire of your eyes.”

Herod said to him:

“I am afraid of the kingdom,

I am afraid of the Roman kingdom, which rules over the land, since Herod was subordinate to it.

He said to him

Bava:

“Send a messenger,

send them a messenger who will request permission to demolish the old Temple and build a new one in its place.

And let him go for a year, remain for a year, and return for a year.”

Let the messenger travel for a year, remain there for a year, and return for a year.

Meanwhile,

in the meantime,

demolish it and rebuild it.”

Demolish it and rebuild it.

He did so.

Herod did so.

They sent to him,

the authorities from Rome answered him:

“If you have not demolished it,

the old one,

do not demolish it. And if

you have already

demolished it, do not build

the new one.

And if you have demolished and built,

it will be said of you:

“Evil slaves,

evil slaves,

after they act, they consult their master.”

After they act, they consult with the master whether to act—that is, they request permission.

“If your weapons are upon you,

if you pride yourself on your weapons with which you killed your master’s household, then

your genealogy scroll is here,

your genealogy scroll is here in our possession, and we know that you are a slave.

You are neither a king nor the son of a king,

you are neither a king nor the son of a king, but rather

Herod, the slave who made himself free.”

Herod the slave became free on his own.

The Gemara asks:

“What is ‘king’?

What is the meaning of “king”?

Kingship. As it is written

in II Samuel 2:

“I am today tender and anointed king.” And if you wish,

say, from here,

and if you wish, say from here [Genesis 48]:

“And they shall call before him: Avrech.”

Its meaning is: father of the king. That is, Joseph was like a father to Pharaoh.

They said:

the Sages said:

“Whoever did not see the building of Herod did not see a beautiful building in his days. With what did he build it?”

With what did he build it?

Rabba said: With stones of green marble and white marble,

green marble and white marble.

There are those who say:

there are those who say that it was with three kinds of stones:

with stones of blue marble,

blue stones,

marble and white marble,

green and white.

He brought out one row and brought in one row,

he projected one row and recessed one row,

so that it would receive plaster

so that the wall would receive and hold the plaster.

Herod thought

Herod

to plate it with gold,

to cover it with gold, in order to add beauty.

The Sages said to him: “Leave it,

leave it thus, as it is,

for this way is more beautiful,

for this way it is more beautiful because

it appears like the waves of the sea,

since it appears like the waves of the sea, which move and sway, and the eye delights in seeing them . The Gemara asks:

“And Bava ben Buta—how did he do this,

how did he do this? He gave good advice to an evildoer.

But did Rav Yehuda say in the name of Rav—and some say,

and some say

Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi: For what reason was Daniel punished?”

as will be brought below,

“Because he gave advice to Nebuchadnezzar. As it is stated

in the book of Daniel [chapter 4], after Daniel prophesied to Nebuchadnezzar the punishment with which the Holy One, blessed is He, was to punish him:

“Therefore, O king,

therefore, O king,

let my counsel be pleasing to you,

let my counsel be good for you,

and redeem your sins through charity,

redeem your sins by performing charity,

and your iniquities through showing mercy to the poor,

and redeem your iniquities by showing mercy to the poor.

Then there will be an extension to your tranquility,” and so on.

That is, then there will be a remedy for the lengthening of your days in your good tranquility.

And it is written:

“All this came upon King Nebuchadnezzar,”

all the evil prophecy of Daniel came upon King Nebuchadnezzar.

And it is written: “And at the end of twelve months,” and so on.

After twelve months his suffering began. It is implied that because of Daniel’s counsel, the evil decree was postponed for twelve months.

The Gemara answers with two answers:

“If you wish, say:

if you wish, say:

The slave is different, for he is obligated in mitzvot.”

Herod the slave is different, since he is obligated in mitzvot. Therefore it is permitted to give him proper advice.

“And if you wish, say: The Temple is different, for if it is not

built by

the kingdom, it is not built,”

it is not built at all. Therefore it was permitted to give him advice about how to build it. The Gemara asks:

“And as for Daniel, from where do we know that he was punished,

from where do we know that he was punished?

If you say

if it is said

because it is written

in the Scroll of Esther [chapter 4]:

“And Esther summoned Hathach.” And Rav said: Hathach is Daniel! This works according to the one who says

that Daniel was called “Hathach” because

they cut him down from his greatness.

If so, this is his punishment.

But according to the one who says

that Daniel was called Hathach because

all matters of the kingdom were decided according to his word, what is there to say?”

After all, Daniel was not punished; on the contrary, he was elevated to greatness! The Gemara answers:

“For they threw him

they threw Daniel

into the den of lions,

into the lions’ den, and this was his punishment. And now the Gemara returns to discuss the wording of the Mishna. We learned in the Mishna:

“Everything according to the custom of the country.”

And the Gemara discusses it:

“‘Everything’—what does it come to include?”

What does the word “everything,” which is a word of inclusion, come to include?

It comes to include a place where they customarily use palm branches and thorn branches,

to include a place where they customarily make a fence from palm branches and branches of the carob tree. There too they follow the custom of the place. And further we learned:

“Therefore, if the wall falls—

the place and the stones belong to both of them.”

And the Gemara discusses it:

“It is obvious,

it is certainly so that the wall and the stones belong to both of them. Even if the Mishna had not taught us this, since at the outset they both made it against their will, they are now located with the permission of both of them. And whose hand will prevail?

It is necessary

the Mishna needed to teach us this law only in a case

where it fell

the wall

into the possession of one of them,

that it fell into the possession of one of them.

Alternatively,

or another case:

where one of them moved them

into his possession,

where one of them moved them after they fell into his possession.

Lest you say,

lest you say,

the other should have

the other should have the law of

“the one who seeks to take from his fellow bears the proof,”

since he comes to claim the stones that are in his fellow’s possession and remove them from him.

It teaches us

the tanna therefore teaches us that since they are partners, and it is not the way of partners to insist that the objects be located in the possession of one of them, he cannot prove that they are his merely from the fact that they are in his possession. And further we learned in the Mishna:

“And likewise in a garden, where it is customary to build a fence”—

“they compel him.”

And the Gemara challenges:

“This itself is difficult,

the Mishna itself is difficult.

You said

at the beginning:

“And likewise in a garden, where it is customary to build a fence, they compel him.”

And this implies:

“In an unspecified case,

but in an unspecified place, where there is no custom,

they do not compel him. Say in the latter clause,

now say the end of the Mishna:

“But in an open field, where it is customary not to build a fence, they do not compel him.”

And this implies:

“In an unspecified case, they compel him.”

If so, this is difficult; it follows by a kal va-homer:

Now, regarding an ordinary garden, you said, “they do not

obligate him.” And this is so even though the damage caused by seeing into it is severe! If so,

an ordinary uncultivated field—is it necessary to ask!?

Is there a question about this? It is obvious that they do not obligate him! And the Gemara answers:

Abaye said: this

is what he is saying,

the tanna says this:

And likewise, an ordinary garden,

even if they did not customarily make a fence around it.

But in a place where they customarily make a fence around an uncultivated field, they obligate him.

According to this, “a place where they customarily make a fence” in the Mishna does not refer to a garden at all, but to an uncultivated field. But Rava challenges him:

Rava said to him: If so,

it is as you say,

what is the meaning of “but,”

why does he say, “but in an uncultivated field”? For the tanna has just been discussing it! Rather, the tanna should have said as follows: But in a place where they customarily do not make a fence, they do not obligate him.

Rather, Rava said: this is how it is taught,

the tanna teaches as follows:

And likewise, an ordinary garden is considered like a place where they customarily make a fence—

it is considered so,

and they obligate him.

But an ordinary uncultivated field is considered like a place where they did not customarily make a fence, and they do not obligate him:

We also learned further in the Mishna:

Rather, if he wishes, he enters within his own [property] and builds, and makes a projection:

And the Gemara discusses it:

What is a “projection”?

Rav Huna said: he bends the corner outward,

he bends the head of the wall outward, toward his fellow’s side. And regarding its thickness on the outside, he bends it toward the head of the wall, for he attaches stones and mortar at its head and thickens it.

And the Gemara asks:

Let him make it inward,

and let him make it toward the inside!?

And the Gemara answers:

His fellow will also make it outward.

His fellow, too, will make it on the outside—that is, from his side toward the inside, without his knowledge,

and say: It is mine and his,

and say: This wall is mine and his, since we built it in partnership.

But the Gemara asks:

If so,

if that is so,

now also,

even now, when he makes it toward the outside, also

his fellow can cut it off,

his fellow can cut off the projection beside him,

and say,

and say: From the fact that there is no projection on either side, it is evident that

it is mine and his—

the wall is mine and his!

And the Gemara answers:

The cutting is known.

The cutting is known and visible to everyone. And he cannot make this claim!

There are those who say:

Some say that Rav Huna said the opposite:

Rav Huna said: Bend the corner inward.

He bends the head of the wall toward the inside.

And the Gemara asks:

Let him make it outward,

so that he bends it outward?!

And the Gemara answers:

His fellow can cut it off,

his fellow can cut it off,

and say: It is mine and his!

And the Gemara challenges:

If so,

if that is so,

now also,

even now, when he makes it toward the inside,

his fellow can add to it,

his fellow can join to it and add a projection also on his side,

and say,

and claim:

It is mine and his—

it is mine and his!

And the Gemara answers:

The addition is known.

The addition is known and visible to everyone.

The Gemara challenges: How is it possible to explain it according to the view of those who say,

but

yet,

“on the outside” is what it teaches,

does not the Mishna teach, “and makes a projection on the outside”?

And the Gemara’s conclusion is:

It is difficult.

Indeed, this formulation is difficult!

And the Gemara brings another explanation of a projection: