Avodah Zarah 75a (עה.) — the Talmud in English

Rather,

the explanation of their dispute is as follows:

Rav said:

He dries them

with water

first,

and the same law applies

that after the water he requires

for

drying with

ashes.

Rabba bar bar Ḥana said:

In order to dry them, he requires

ashes, and the same law applies

that after the ashes he requires

water.

And

in truth,

they do not disagree;

they are not disputing one another.

This

is referring to Rabba bar bar Ḥana, who spoke

about a

winepress

that is wet,

one that still contains moisture from wine. Therefore, one must first scrub it with ashes until the winepress is clean and dry, and afterward clean it with water.

This,

Rav spoke

about a

winepress

that is dry,

one that is dry. One must first clean it with water in order to dissipate the wine, and afterward add the ashes and scrub with them.

It was stated: At

the house of

Rav, in the name

of

Rav, they said:

For a wet winepress, one must perform

two

actions: first, scrubbing with ashes; and afterward, cleaning with water.

For a dry winepress, one must perform

three

actions: first, cleaning with water; second, scrubbing with ashes [after the water]; and third, cleaning with water [after the ashes].

And Shmuel said:

The procedure for rendering the winepress fit is as follows: For a wet one,

three

actions: first, scrubbing with ashes; second, cleaning with water; and third, scrubbing with ashes. For a dry winepress, one must perform

For a dry winepress, one must perform

four

actions: first, cleaning with water; second, scrubbing with ashes; third, cleaning with water; and fourth, scrubbing with ashes.

It follows that the essence of the dispute between Rav and Shmuel is whether applying the ashes is an action that must be performed only once—whether for a wet winepress or for a dry one—which is Rav’s view, or whether it must be performed twice, as Shmuel maintains.

In Sura, they taught it like this:

They transmitted the dispute between Rav and Shmuel in the manner that we have just learned.

But

in Pumbedita, they taught it

as follows:

At the house of Rav, they said in the name

of

Rav:

For a wet winepress,

three

actions: first, ashes; second, water; and third, ashes.

And for a dry one,

four

actions: first, water; second, ashes; third, water; and fourth, ashes.

And Shmuel said:

For a wet one,

four

actions: first, ashes; second, water; third, ashes; and fourth, water.

And for a dry one,

five

actions: first, water; second, ashes; third, water; fourth, ashes; and fifth, water.

However,

they do not disagree

about the law governing the rendering of the winepress fit.

One master,

Shmuel,

counts the last water

among his tally, since it comes only to remove the ashes; therefore, for a wet winepress he counts four actions, and for a dry one five.

And the other master,

Rav,

does not count the last water

but counts only what is necessary for the actual rendering of the winepress fit.

According to the Pumbedita tradition, however, both Rav and Shmuel indeed require two applications of ashes, whether for a wet winepress or for a dry one.

They asked Rabbi Abbahu: These gorgi

—pressing hoops, meaning rings of reeds and ropes that are wound around the grapes during their treading so that the grapes do not scatter when they are pressed beneath the beam—

that belong to gentiles,

what is their procedure for rendering them fit?

What

is the manner of drying them and rendering them fit?

Rabbi Abbahu said to him: You have learned it:

We learned in a Mishna:

If one’s winepresses and olive presses

[a workshop for pressing olives for oil]

were impure, and he sought to use them in purity,

and he initially needs to clean them of the impure substance they absorbed,

he does the following:

The boards,

large boards placed over the grapes or olives, upon which the beam descends to crush the grapes,

and the pressing surfaces,

which are the winepress itself,

and the brooms,

with which the floor is swept of grapes that have scattered on it, \-

All these

he rinses

with water, and they are pure.

And the pressing hoops,

rings used to tighten the grapes during treading,

made of reeds and of flax,

hemp [which resembles flax], which absorb more; therefore, in order to purify them and render them fit,

he dries them

with water, and this is sufficient.

And those made of shifa,

a material extracted from a type of plant,

and those made of

rushes,

cane reeds—which absorb even more, so that rinsing and drying are insufficient—rather,

he leaves them unused for twelve months,

and only in this manner do they become fit.

Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says: He leaves them

without use

from

the time of the grape harvest, when grapes are trodden in a

winepress,

until

the

time of treading the

winepress

the following year, which is twelve months.

And

likewise, from the time of harvesting the olives and producing oil in the

olive press,

until

the

time of the

olive press

the following year, which is also twelve months.

The Gemara therefore asks: Are Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel’s words

identical to those of the first tanna,

as according to both of them twelve months are required?

The Gemara explains:

The difference between them

is as follows:

An early or a late

harvest—sometimes the winepress is used early, and sometimes the winepress is used late.

Thus, according to Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel, the matter does not depend specifically on twelve months, since sometimes the interval between the two harvests is longer or shorter than that. According to the first tanna, however, one may not use these utensils within less than twelve months.

Rabbi Yosei says: One who wishes to purify them immediately,

without having to wait a year,

scalds them with

water

boiling water, or boils them in olive water,

the water in which olives were boiled before they were crushed, so that the olives would soften and their oil would emerge easily.

With this water, which is hot, one boils these utensils, and thereby they become pure.

Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel, in the name of Rabbi Yosei, says: He leaves them

these utensils

beneath a channel

whose waters flow continuously

without interruption,

or in a spring whose waters rush

turbulently and forcefully.

And how much

time must he leave them in this manner?

A season. [

And below it explains how long a season is.]

The beraita adds concerning these methods of rendering utensils fit:

Just as they said

to render

wine

utensils

of wine used for idolatrous libation fit, so they said regarding matters of ritual purity.

This is not understood:

What is this referring to?

What is meant by this statement? After all, we

are dealing with matters of ritual purity [

we are situated here], and these laws were stated concerning matters of ritual purity. What, then, is the meaning of “just as they said to render utensils of wine used for idolatrous libation fit”?

Rather,

the Gemara compels the following explanation: It must be said as follows:

Just as they said

in this Mishna

regarding matters of ritual purity,

how the utensils are rendered fit,

so

in this manner

they said regarding

the laws governing the rendering fit of utensils that contained

wine used for idolatrous libation.

Accordingly, this Mishna provides an answer to the question Rabbi Abbahu was asked: How does one render fit the hoops used to tighten grapes during treading?

We learned above: He leaves them beneath a channel whose waters flow continuously, or in a spring whose waters rush, for the duration of a season.

The Gemara asks:

How long

is

a season?

Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: Either a day or a night.

Rabbi Ḥana Sheina, and some say

that this statement was made by

Rabbi Ḥana bar Sheina, said

in the name of

Rabba bar bar Ḥana, who said in the name of Rabbi Yoḥanan:

One must leave them there for

half a day and half a night.

Rabbi Shmuel bar Yitzḥak said: They do not disagree;

there is no dispute between them in the statement of Rabbi Yoḥanan:

This

statement of Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba in the name of Rabbi Yoḥanan was said regarding leaving the utensils

during the seasons of Nisan and Tishrei,

when the day and night are equal, and therefore it makes no difference whether he leaves them during the day or during the night, since in either case there are twelve hours,

whereas this

Rabbi Ḥana Sheina’s statement in the name of Rabbi Yoḥanan referred

to the seasons of Tammuz and Tevet,

when the day and night are not equal; therefore, he must leave them there for half a day and half a night, so that in any event they remain there for twelve hours.

Rav Yehuda said: These rovkei,

the strainers used to filter sediment from wine [made of sackcloth, through whose holes the wine emerges],

that belong to gentiles,

how does one render them fit?

If they are

made of hair,

that is, human hair, which does not absorb, it is sufficient if

he rinses them

with water, and they are fit.

If they are made of wool,

if the strainers are made of wool,

he dries them

with ashes and water.

If they are made of flax,

made of flax and highly absorbent, they have no remedy except

leaving them unused,

leaving them without use for twelve months, thereby rendering them fit.

And if there are knots,

and if they contain knots,

he loosens them,

unties them.

These

ones,

the baskets

and

the strainers

and strainers

that belong to gentiles,

that are made by

sewing with palm-fiber cords,

meaning that they are sewn with cords made of palm fibers—

he rinses them

with water, and they are fit.