Avodah Zarah 75a — the Talmud in English

Rather

The explanation of their dispute is as follows:

Rav said

he dries them

with water

first,

and the same הדין

that after the water he needs

to

dry them with

ashes.

Rabba bar bar Hana said:

When he intends to dry them, he needs

ashes, and the same דין

that after the ashes he needs

water.

And

in truth,

they do not disagree;

they disputed.

This

Rabba bar bar Hana was speaking

about a

winepress

wet

winepress, one that still contains the moisture of wine. Therefore, one must first scrub it with ashes until the winepress becomes dry, and afterward clean it with water.

This,

Rav was speaking

about a

winepress

dry

winepress. One must first clean it with water in order to dispel the wine, and afterward add the ashes and scrub with them.

It was stated: In the house of

in the house of

Rav, in the name

in the name of

Rav, they say:

For a wet winepress, one must perform

two

actions: a. scrubbing with ashes; b. afterward, cleaning with water.

For a dry winepress, one must perform

three

actions: a. cleaning with water; b. scrubbing with ashes [after the water]; c. cleaning with water [after the ashes].

And Shmuel said:

The preparation of the winepress is as follows: for a wet one—

three

actions: a. scrubbing with ashes; b. cleaning with water; c. scrubbing with ashes.

For a dry winepress, one must perform

four

actions: a. cleaning with water; b. scrubbing with ashes; c. cleaning with water; d. scrubbing with ashes.

It follows that the essence of the dispute between Rav and Shmuel is whether the application of the ashes is an action that must be performed once—both in a wet winepress and in a dry one—and this is Rav’s view, whereas according to Shmuel it must be performed twice.

In Sura, they taught it thus:

They taught the dispute between Rav and Shmuel in this manner, as we have now learned.

But

in Pumbedita, they taught

it as follows:

In the house of Rav, they say, in the name

in the name of

Rav:

In a wet winepress—

three

actions: a. ashes; b. water; c. ashes.

And in a dry one—

four

actions: a. water; b. ashes; c. water; d. ashes.

And Shmuel said:

In a wet one—

four

actions: a. ashes; b. water; c. ashes; d. water.

And in a dry one—

five

actions: a. water; b. ashes; c. water; d. ashes; e. water.

However,

they do not disagree

Rav and Shmuel regarding the law of the preparation.

One master,

Shmuel,

counts the final water

he includes in his count the last water, which comes only to clean away the ashes; therefore, in a wet one he counts four actions, and in a dry one five,

and one master,

Rav,

does not count the final water

he does not include the last water, but only what is required for the preparation itself.

But according to the Pumbedita tradition, in truth both Rav and Shmuel require, both for a wet winepress and for a dry winepress, scrubbing with ashes twice.

They asked Rabbi Abahu: These gurgei

racks, that is, circles of reeds and ropes that they circle and wrap around the grapes while they are being trodden, so that they will not scatter when they are pressed beneath the beam,

which are of the Arameans

and belong to gentiles,

What

how does one dry them and prepare them?

Rabbi Abahu said to him: You have learned it:

we learned—

if one’s winepresses and olive presses

the workshop for pressing olives for oil

were impure, and he wished to make them in purity

and initially needed to clean them of the impure substance they had absorbed.

He does this:

the boards

large boards that they place upon the grapes or olives, and upon which the beam descends that crushes the grapes,

and the lenses

these are the winepress itself,

and the brooms

with which they sweep the floor of grapes that had scattered upon it, \-

all of these

he rinses

with water, and they are pure.

And the racks

circles with which they tighten the grapes at the time of treading,

of reeds and of flax

hemp [and it resembles flax], and they absorb more; therefore, in order to purify and prepare them,

he dries them

with water, and it is possible.

And those of rush

a material produced from a species of plant,

and those of

reed

cane—they absorb to a greater degree, and rinsing and drying do not suffice; rather,

he leaves them for twelve months,

and only through this do they become prepared.

Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says: He leaves them

without use

from

the time of the vintage, when grapes are trodden in a

winepress,

until

the

time of treading the

winepress

the following year, which is twelve months.

And

likewise from the time of harvesting the olives and making the oil in the

olive press,

until

the

time of the following

olive press, which is also twelve months.

which is also twelve months later.

If so, the Gemara asks: Surely the words of Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel—

they are the same as the first tanna,

for according to both of them twelve months are required?

The Gemara explains:

There is this difference between them

the distinction between them is as follows:

an early and a late

there are times when the winepress is brought forward, and times when the winepress is delayed.

If so, according to Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel, this is not specifically dependent upon twelve months, since at times the interval between them is longer than this or shorter than this. But according to the first tanna, one may not use these vessels within less than twelve months.

Rabbi Yose says: One who wishes to purify them immediately,

even without having to wait a year,

scalds them with

water

boiling, or plunges them into olive water,

which is water in which they boiled the olives before crushing them, so that the olives would be soft and their oil would emerge easily.

And in this water [which is hot], they plunge these vessels, and through this they come to purity.

Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel, in the name of Rabbi Yose, says: He leaves them

these vessels

beneath a pipe

whose waters stream

without interruption,

or in a spring whose waters rush

surging and raging.

And how much

time does he leave them in this manner?

A season. [

And below it explains how long a season is.]

And the beraita adds concerning these methods of preparation:

Just as they said

to prepare

the

vessels of

wine of idolatrous libation, so they said regarding purities.

And this is not understood:

In what direction is this?

What is meant by this statement? Surely we

are dealing with purities [are standing] and these laws were stated concerning the laws of purities; what is the meaning of “just as they said to prepare in purities”?

here], and these laws were stated concerning purification; so what does “in the manner that they said to make utensils containing sacrificial wine fit for use” mean?

Rather,

the Gemara compels the following explanation: It must be said thus—

just as they said

in this Mishna

regarding purities,

how does one prepare the vessels,

so

in this manner

they said regarding

the laws of preparing vessels that had contained

wine of idolatrous libation.

If so, this Mishna contains an answer to the question that was asked of Rabbi Abahu: how does one prepare the racks with which the grapes are tightened at the time of treading?

We learned above: He leaves them beneath a pipe whose waters stream, or in a spring whose waters rush, for the duration of a season.

The Gemara asks:

How much

time is

a season?

Rabbi Hiyya bar Abba said that Rabbi Yohanan said: Either a day or a night.

Rabbi Hana Sheina, and some say

and some say that this matter was said by

Rabbi Hana bar Sheina, said

in the name of

Rabba bar bar Hana, who said in the name of Rabbi Yohanan:

One should leave them there

half a day and half a night.

Rabbi Shmuel bar Yitzhak said: And they do not disagree

there is no disagreement between them in the words of Rabbi Yohanan:

this

the words of Rabbi Hiyya bar Abba in the name of Rabbi Yohanan were said regarding leaving the vessels

during the seasons of Nisan and Tishrei

when the day and night are equal; therefore, there is no difference whether one leaves them during the day or during the night, since in both there are twelve hours,

this

Rabbi Hana Sheina in the name of Rabbi Yohanan was speaking

during the seasons of Tammuz and Tevet,

when the day and night are not equal; therefore, one must leave them there for half a day and half a night, so that in any event they will remain there for twelve hours.

Rav Yehuda said: These rovaki

those strainers with which they strain the sediment from the wine [made of sackcloth, through the holes of the cloth the wine emerges]

which are of the Arameans

belonging to gentiles—how does one prepare them?

If they are

of hair

made of human hair, which does not absorb, then it suffices if

he rinses them

with water, and they are fit.

Of wool:

if the strainers are made of wool,

he dries them

with ashes and water.

Of flax:

made of flax, and they absorb greatly, they have no remedy except

leaving them

he leaves them without use for twelve months, and through this they become prepared.

And if there are knots

and if there are knots in them,

he unties them

he undoes them.

These

those

of palm fibers

baskets

and strainers

and strainers

which are of the Arameans

belonging to gentiles,

which are sewn with cords of palm fibers

that are sewn with cords made of palm threads—

he rinses them

with water, and they are fit.