Avodah Zarah 74b (עד:) — the Talmud in English

Mishna:

A stone winepress

made for treading grapes for wine,

which a gentile tarred

with tar so that the winepress would be sealed and the wine would not be absorbed into its cracks. The taste of tar is bitter, and it is customary to place wine into the tar in order to dispel its bitterness.

If so, there is concern lest the gentile placed wine into it and poured it as a libation. Therefore, in order to render it fit by removing the gentile’s wine, the required process

is wiping

with water and ashes—

and it is pure!

And

a winepress

of wood

which, as wood tends to absorb a great deal of wine, is also tarred with a larger quantity of tar; therefore, more wine is placed into it in order to dispel the bitterness of the tar, -

Nevertheless,

Rabbi says: It must be wiped,

and the law of a wooden winepress is the same as the law of a stone winepress.

And the Sages

disagree

and say:

A wooden winepress cannot be rendered fit by wiping alone; rather,

he must peel off the tar!

And

a winepress

of earthenware

cannot be rendered fit at all, since the earthenware itself absorbs wine. Therefore—in everyone’s opinion—

even if he peeled off the tar, it remains prohibited!

Gemara:

Rava said:

The manner of rendering fit a stone winepress required by our Mishna applies

specifically

if

the gentile tarred it,

and there is concern lest the tar absorbed wine placed into it to dispel its bitterness.

However,

if the gentile merely

pressed wine in it

without having tarred it beforehand,

he

does not need wiping; rinsing alone suffices. [The Gemara will explain below what wiping is and what rinsing is.]

The Gemara is surprised:

Isn’t it obvious?!

After all,

“which he tarred” is what we learned

in the Mishna. From where would one consider that the Mishna is speaking even of merely pressing wine in it without tarring it?!

The Gemara explains:

Lest you say

that

the same law applies even

if

he pressed wine in it,

and wiping would be required.

And the reason it teaches

what our Mishna taught,

“which he tarred,”

rather than “in which he pressed wine,” is that

it teaches the ordinary practice:

It is customary that before wine is pressed in a winepress, it is tarred and wine is placed in it to dispel the bitterness of the tar. Therefore,

it teaches

“which he tarred,” although in truth, even if he pressed wine in it without tarring it, the law would be the same. -

It teaches us

that only if he tarred it must it be wiped. If the gentile merely pressed grapes in it, wiping is unnecessary; rinsing alone is required.

Some say

that the statement of Rava is taught as follows:

Rava said:

The law of the Mishna, that wiping is effective, applies

specifically

if the gentile merely

tarred

it.

However,

if

he pressed grapes in it

after tarring it,

it does not suffice

to render it fit

by wiping;

rather, the tar must also be peeled off, since the wine pressed in it penetrates inward.

The Gemara is surprised:

Isn’t this obvious?!

After all, only

“which he tarred” is what we learned

in the Mishna. From where could one say that this procedure would be effective even if wine had been pressed in that tarred winepress?!

The Gemara explains:

Lest you say

that

the same law applies,

and rendering it fit by wiping is effective

even

if he pressed wine in it,

and the reason it teaches

what our Mishna states,

“which he tarred,”

rather than “in which he pressed wine,” is that

it teaches

the ordinary practice:

It follows the ordinary course of events, in which one who tars a winepress does so in order to press wine in it. Therefore, one might infer from our Mishna that wiping is effective even if wine was pressed in it. -

It teaches us

that

specifically

if he merely

tarred

it is this procedure effective.

However,

if he also

pressed wine in it—

it does not suffice

[that is, it is not enough]

for it by wiping;

rather, the tar must be peeled off.

The Gemara cites and proves this from an incident that occurred concerning this matter:

As in the case of one who came before

a certain man who came before

Rabbi Hiyya, and he said to him:

“Give me a man who will purify my winepress for me”

Send me someone who will render my winepress fit [apparently, he had purchased it from a gentile].

Rabbi Hiyya said to Rav: “Go with him,”

Go with him to instruct him how to render the winepress fit,

“and see”

that you do this correctly and in accordance with the halakha,

“lest”

I cause him to lose his wine, and consequently

“he will cry out”

he will cry out

“against me in the beit-midrash”

because we instructed him in a matter that would cause him financial loss.

He went, and saw it

Rav went and saw

that it was exceedingly smooth,

that the tarred winepress was very smooth.

He said,

Rav:

“This one,

since it is smooth and has not absorbed a large amount of wine,

certainly wiping alone suffices”

is enough

for it.

As he was going and coming,

while he was walking back and forth,

he saw a crack beneath it

he saw a crack beneath the tar,

and saw that it was full of wine

and saw that it was full of wine.

He said: “This one,

this winepress,

it does not suffice

it is not enough

for it by wiping; rather,

its preparation is

by peeling!

And this is

this is

what my beloved said to me,

Rabbi Hiyya [who was his uncle]:

“See”

that you render the winepress fit correctly and in accordance with the halakha,

“lest he cry out against me”

lest he cry out against me

“in the beit-midrash!”

The Sages taught: The winepress, the ladle,

the vessel used to draw wine from the pit [in which the wine collects after the grapes have been pressed],

and the funnel

[which were made of earthenware and were not tarred]

and they belong to gentiles,

Rabbi permits

rendering them fit

by wiping

alone,

and the Sages prohibit them.

And Rabbi concedes with regard to jugs

of earthenware

belonging to gentiles, that

even though they are not tarred, they

are prohibited

and this procedure is not effective for them. Rather, in order to render them fit, one must fill them for three days and pour out the water every twenty-four hours. Only after three days are the jugs fit.

And

the Gemara clarifies:

What is the difference between this and that,

such that with regard to the winepress and its vessels wiping suffices, whereas jugs require the more extensive procedure of filling and pouring out?

The distinction is as follows:

This one,

the jugs,

he places it

the wine

into

the jugs for

long-term storage

in them. Therefore, over time the jug absorbs more and more wine, and consequently it requires a more extensive procedure for rendering it fit.

And this one,

the winepress vessels,

he does not place it

the wine

for long-term storage

for a long time, but only briefly, at the time of pressing. Consequently, they do not absorb much, and wiping suffices to render them fit.

And

if the winepress, the ladle, and the funnel were made of

wood or stone

and were not tarred—

they must be wiped

and are fit according to everyone.

And if they were tarred—

they are prohibited

and there is no way to render them fit until the tar is peeled off.

The Gemara asks:

But didn’t we learn

in our Mishna—

“A stone winepress that a gentile tarred: he wipes it, and it is pure”?

Here it is explained that if it was tarred, it is prohibited. The Gemara resolves this:

The Mishna

our Mishna is speaking of a winepress

in which the gentile did not press wine.

Therefore, wiping alone suffices.

Whereas the

beraita

is speaking of a winepress

in which he did press wine,

and its absorption is substantial; therefore, there is no way to render it fit other than by peeling off the tar.

The Master said

in the beraita above:

“The winepress, the ladle, and the funnel belonging to gentiles: Rabbi permits them by wiping, and the Sages prohibit them.”

The Gemara raises a difficulty:

But didn’t we learn

in our Mishna that a winepress

of earthenware, even if he peeled off the tar, remains prohibited?!

This law is apparently according to everyone, whereas in this beraita Rabbi permits the winepress by wiping alone?

Rava said:

The

final clause of the Mishna,

which states that there is no way to render an earthenware winepress fit,

comes

was stated

according

to the opinion of

the Sages.

According to Rabbi, however, it can indeed be rendered fit by peeling off the tar.

And this is the position of the Sages in our Mishna: A stone winepress in which the gentile did not press wine—he wipes it. One of wood—he peels off the tar. Whereas one of earthenware cannot be rendered fit.

According to Rabbi, a stone or wooden winepress is rendered fit by wiping, and an earthenware winepress by peeling off the tar.

Rava taught: “Scald the winepresses,”

the winepresses acquired from gentiles, render them fit by scalding with boiling water!

When Rava would send empty jars

when he would send empty jugs by a gentile messenger

to

a place called

Harpania, he would turn them over onto their mouths,

placing them inside the sack with their openings facing downward and their bases upward,

and he would seal the sack at their bases, while they were inverted. And he would seal them on their bases

he would seal the opening of the sack at the bases of the vessels, when they were inverted. He did this because of the principle of “a seal within a seal”

Why did he do this?

He held

Rava that

anything

even an empty vessel into which it is customary for a person

to place

wine

for long-term storage,

even if

even

the vessel is in the possession of a gentile

only temporarily,

and seemingly there is no concern that he will place wine into it during the brief period that the vessel is in his possession, nevertheless

the Sages decreed concerning it

that it is prohibited to leave this vessel in a gentile’s possession, as though it actually contained wine.

Therefore, Rava sealed the vessel with a seal within a seal.

We learned in our Mishna: A stone winepress that a gentile tarred—he wipes it.

The Gemara clarifies:

With what does he wipe them?

Rav said:

He wipes them

with water.

Rabba bar bar Ḥana said:

He wipes them

with ashes.

[The Gemara will explain below how this wiping is performed.] The Gemara raises a difficulty:

Rav said

he wipes them

with water.

Does he wipe them

with water

alone

and not with ashes,

and how can such wiping with water alone effectively clean away the wine?

Furthermore,

Rabba bar bar Ḥana said

he wipes them

with ashes.

Does he wipe them

with ashes

alone

and not with water,

and how is this wiping effective?!