Avodah Zarah 25a (כה.) — the Talmud in English

Above, Rabbi Eliezer and Rabbi Yehoshua ben Neḥemya disagreed concerning the song of the cows that came from the Philistines. And the Gemara brings another dispute in which they disagreed.

After Joshua waged war against the five kings who besieged Gibeon, it is stated [Joshua 10:13]:

“And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance upon its enemies; is this not written in the Book of the Upright?”

And the Gemara discusses this:

What

is meant by

“the Book of the Upright”?

Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: This is the book of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

That is, the Book of Genesis, in which the deeds of the Patriarchs, who were called upright, are recorded.

As it is stated [Numbers 23:10]:

“

May my soul die the death of the upright”

[when Balaam blessed himself, expressing the wish that his death should be like the death of the Patriarchs].

And the Gemara discusses this:

And where is it hinted

in the Book of the Upright [Genesis] that this matter would occur, that the sun would stand still?

The Gemara answers: It is stated in Jacob’s blessing to Ephraim [Genesis 48:19]:

“And his offspring shall fill the nations.” -

When will

Ephraim’s offspring

fill the nations? When the sun stood still for Joshua.

Joshua was descended from Ephraim, as it is written [Numbers 13:8]: “Of the tribe of Ephraim, Hoshea, son of Nun.”

And because the sun stood still for Joshua, the matter was seen throughout the world, and the entire world was filled with dread and fear of him—“fill the nations”! It is stated there [Joshua 10:13]:

“And the sun stood still in the midst of the heavens and did not hasten to come for a complete day.”

This implies that there were two stoppages:

a. In the midst of the heavens, that is, at midday.

b. Near sunset. [This is what is stated in the continuation of the verse, “and did not hasten to come for a complete day.” This implies that there was an additional stoppage beyond the stoppage in the midst of the heavens.]

And the Gemara discusses this:

And how much

time did it last, until the sun set?

Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said: Twenty-four

hours

the event lasted. And what was the sequence?

It was as follows:

It proceeded for six,

the sun moved for six hours from its rising,

and stood for six,

and after six hours, at midday, it stood still. And this is as it is stated: “And the sun stood.”

And again,

it proceeded for six,

it moved for six hours,

and stood for six,

and after these six hours, before the end of the day, it stood still for six hours, as it is stated: “and did not hasten to come.” After that, it set as usual.

The entire matter,

the entire duration of this movement and stoppage of the sun, was

“like a complete day”

[as stated in the verse]. For a complete and whole day is twenty-four hours. Day and night together are called “day.”

Rabbi Elazar said: Thirty-six

[thirty-six] hours the event lasted. How so?

It proceeded for six,

the sun moved for six hours,

and stood for twelve;

it stood for twelve hours.

It proceeded for six

hours,

and stood for twelve,

and stood for twelve hours. That is, its

“stoppage,”

the stoppage of the sun mentioned in the verse, lasted

“a complete day.”

And “a complete day” does not refer to the movement and stoppage taken as a whole, but only to the stoppage of the sun, which by itself lasted twenty-four hours.

Rabbi Shmuel bar Naḥmani said: Forty-eight

hours was the duration of the event.

It proceeded for six,

the sun moved for six hours,

and stood for twelve,

it stood for twelve hours.

It proceeded for six,

it moved for six hours,

and stood for twenty-four.

It stood in its place for twenty-four hours.

And from where do we know that this was the sequence?

As it is stated: “And it did not hasten to come for a complete day,”

and it has already been explained that there were two stoppages. One stoppage is derived from the words “and the sun stood in the midst of the heavens,” and the second from “and did not hasten to come for a complete day.”

This implies that this second stoppage lasted twenty-four hours.

From this

you learn that the stoppage

at the outset,

the first one [whose duration is not explained in the verse], presumably

was not like a complete day

[it was not a full day]. Rather, it lasted twelve hours.

But its second stoppage lasted twenty-four hours, and this is the “complete day” mentioned in the verse.

There is another way of understanding this dispute:

Some say:

The dispute was not concerning the duration of the entire event, whether it lasted twenty-four or thirty-six hours, and so on. Rather, the Sages cited above

disagreed in the Tosefta

over how much was added to the length of the day by the sun’s stoppage.

Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said: Twenty-four

hours were added by the sun’s stoppage:

And this was the sequence:

It proceeded

the sun moved

six

hours,

and stood

it stood

twelve

hours.

It proceeded for six

hours,

and stood for twelve

and stood for twelve hours.

And

its stoppage

of the sun

is “like a complete day”

as stated in the verse, since it lasted twenty-four hours, which constitute a “complete day.”

Rabbi Elazar said: Thirty-six

hours were added to the day by the sun’s stoppage:

And this was the sequence:

It proceeded,

the sun moved

six

hours.

And it stood,

it stood in its place

twelve

hours;

it proceeded

for

six

hours,

and stood

for

twenty-four

hours.

And from where do we know that this was the case?

It is stated [concerning the second stoppage]:

“And it did not hasten to come for a complete day.”

This implies that this stoppage, at the end of the day, lasted twenty-four hours. The first stoppage, by contrast, presumably lasted twelve hours, as the sun normally stands still and ceases its activity at night.

Rabbi Shmuel bar Naḥmani said: Forty-eight

hours was the duration of the sun’s stoppage.

It proceeded

for

six

hours,

and stood

for

twenty-four

hours;

it proceeded

for

six

hours,

and stood

for

twenty-four.

And from where do we know that this was the case? It is stated in the verse [Joshua 10:13]: “And the sun stood in the midst of the heavens and did not hasten to come for a complete day.”

The verse compares

the

stoppage

[“and the sun stood”]

to its coming

[“to come for a complete day”].

And this is what is derived from the comparison:

Just as

the second stoppage of the sun, which occurred before

its coming

[that is, before the setting of the sun], lasted

a complete day,

that is, twenty-four hours,

so too its stoppage

that occurred at midday [as it is stated in the verse, “and the sun stood in the midst of the heavens”] lasted twenty-four hours—

a complete day.

And if so, the two stoppages together, being equal in duration, lasted forty-eight hours.

A tanna

taught:

Just as the sun stood still for Joshua, so did the sun stand still for Moses and for Naḥum the son of Gurion!

And the Gemara explains when and where the sun stood still for each of these individuals.

a. The source that the sun stood still for

Joshua

is

from the verses,

from the verses cited earlier in the sugya.

b. The source that the sun stood still for

Naḥum the son of Gurion

is from the

Gemara

in tractate Ta’anit [19b; see the note, which gives the entire incident as it appears there]. c. As for what we learned, that the sun stood

for Moses,

the Gemara asks:

From where do we know

this?

The Gemara answers:

It is derived

through a

gzera shava, “I shall begin” and “I shall begin.”

It is written here

in the case of Moses, concerning the war against Sihon [Deuteronomy 2:25]

“I shall begin to place the fear of you

and the dread of you upon the peoples.”

And it is written there, concerning Joshua

[Joshua 3:7]:

“I shall begin to make you great.”

From this we learn that the sun stood still for Moses when he fought Sihon, and the matter became known to everyone, as it did in the case of Joshua.

And Rabbi Yoḥanan said:

We learn this matter, that the sun stood still for Moses, as follows:

It is derived

through a gzera shava, from the words

“to place” and “to place.” It is written here

in the case of Moses [Deuteronomy 2:25]:

“I shall begin to place your fear,” and it is written concerning Joshua

regarding the same matter [Joshua 10:12]:

“On the day that the Lord placed the Amorite.”

Rabbi Shmuel bar Naḥmani said:

This matter, that the sun stood still for Moses,

is learned from the body of the verse itself;

we learn it from the verse itself.

It is stated [Deuteronomy 2:25]: “I shall begin to place your fear and your dread upon all the peoples

who shall hear of your reputation, and they shall tremble and writhe before you.”

And the matter is explained as follows:

When

are the words of the verse

“they shall tremble and writhe before you”

fulfilled?

When the sun stood still for Moses,

and through this, his fear would be upon all the peoples!

The Gemara raises an objection:

Following that event, when the sun stood still for Joshua, it is stated [Joshua 10:14]:

“And there was no day like that, before it or after it.”

Yet we see that the sun stood still for Moses. The Gemara answers in two ways.

a.

If you wish, say

that one can answer as follows:

The hours were simply not so numerous.

The sun’s stoppage for Moses did not last as many hours as it did for Joshua.

And for this reason it is stated concerning Joshua: “And there was no day like that, before it or after it.”

b.

And if you wish, say

another answer:

There were no hailstones

[there were] in the case of Moses.

As it is written

concerning Joshua [Joshua 10:11]:

“And it was, as they fled before Israel, while they were descending at Beth-horon, that the Lord cast great stones upon them from the heavens until Azekah, and they died.”

And because of these hailstones, which were in addition to the sun’s stoppage, it is stated concerning Joshua: “And there was no day like that, before it or after it”!

The “Book of the Upright,” which is the Book of Genesis and is so called on account of the Patriarchs, was mentioned above. The Gemara discusses this:

It is written

[Before David lamented the death of Saul and Jonathan and the rest of Israel who fell at the hands of the Philistines, he saw the need to strengthen the hearts of his men, so that they would not lose heart and despair of raising their heads against the Philistines, and he said to them: The time has come to teach the sons of Judah the warfare of the bow, and they will overcome the Philistines].

And it is stated [II Samuel 1:18]:

“And he said to teach the sons of Judah the bow; behold, it is written in the Book of the Upright.”

And the Gemara discusses this:

What

is meant by

“the Book of the Upright”?

Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: This is the book of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who were called upright. As it is written concerning them:

It is stated concerning the Patriarchs [Numbers 23:10]:

“May my soul die the death of the upright, and may my end be like his.”

And now one must ask:

And where is it hinted

in the Torah that the men of Judah would hold bows, as David said?

The answer: It is stated [Genesis 49:8]:

“Judah, you are he whom your brothers shall acknowledge; your hand shall be on the nape of your enemies.”

And the Gemara explains:

And what is the warfare that requires a hand opposite the nape,

that is, in which the warrior’s hand is near his nape? -

You must say: This is the bow.

The warrior’s practice is to draw the bow until his hand reaches behind him, opposite his nape. And this is what is stated: “Your hand shall be on the nape of your enemies.”

Rabbi Elazar says:

“The Book of the Upright” mentioned above

is the Book of Deuteronomy.

That is, the Book of Deuteronomy.

And why

did they

call it

by the name

“the Book of the Upright”?

As it is written:

It is stated [Deuteronomy 6:18]:

“And you shall do what is upright and good in the eyes of the Lord.”

And if so, having explained that the Book of the Upright is the Book of Deuteronomy, one must ask:

And where is it hinted

in it that the sons of Judah would be archers? -

It is stated in the blessing with which Moses blessed the Children of Israel, and this is what he said to the tribe of Judah [Deuteronomy 33:7]:

“His hands are sufficient for him.”

“Hands” is plural, and the minimum of a plural is two.

And

if so,

what is the warfare that requires two hands?

The answer:

You must say: This is the bow!

Rabbi Shmuel bar Naḥmani said:

The Book of the Upright

is the Book of Judges. And why did they call it

the Book of Judges

“the Book of the Upright”?

As it is written

[Judges 17:6]:

“In those days there was no king in Israel; each man would do what was upright in his eyes.”

And for this reason it is called the Book of the Upright.

And the Gemara discusses this:

And where is it hinted

in it that the sons of Judah would hold bows? -

It is stated [Judges 3:2]: “And these are the nations that the Lord left,”

“in order to teach the generations of the Children of Israel warfare.”

And

the Gemara explains:

What is the warfare that requires instruction

and training in order to succeed in it? -

You must say: This is the bow!

And the Gemara discusses this: David instructed the sons of Judah to be skilled with the bow.

And from where do we know

from where do we know

that

the verse stated in the Book of Judges

is written concerning Judah?

The answer:

As it is written

[Judges 1:1–2]:

“Who shall go up for us against the Canaanite

first

to wage war against him? And the Lord said: Judah shall go up; behold, I have given the land into his hand.”

And it is thereby clear that an ordinary war mentioned in the Book of Judges is one waged by Judah.

The Gemara further cites a dispute between Rabbi Yohanan, Rabbi Eliezer, and Rabbi Shmuel bar Naḥmani]

When Saul was searching for the donkeys that had been lost by his father, he went to Samuel to seek his prophecy concerning the matter.

Samuel prophesied that Saul would come to him and that he would anoint him king over Israel. And when Saul came to Samuel, he seated him at the head of the meal at which the sacrifice that had been offered on the bama was eaten, as it is stated [I Samuel 9:23–24]: "

And Samuel said to the cook: “Give the portion that I gave you, concerning which I said to you, ‘Place it with you.’”

And the cook lifted the thigh and the upper portion and placed them before Saul."

The Gemara discusses this verse:

What

is the meaning of

“and the upper portion”?

Rabbi Yohanan says:

The thigh and the upper portion that are mentioned here are

the thigh and the fat tail (alya). [The alya is the tail of the sheep].

If so,

what

is the reason that it is written

“and the upper portion,”

rather than “the alya”?

The explanation is: because

it rests upon

the

thigh,

as the alya lies upon the thigh.

And Rabbi Elazar says: The “thigh and the upper portion” mentioned in the verse are

the

thigh and the breast.

If so,

what is meant by “and the upper portion,”

and why was “and the upper portion” written?

The answer is:

he places the breast upon the thigh, because when it is necessary to wave them, he waves it together with it.

He places the breast on top of the thigh when they require waving in a peace offering, and waves it together with the thigh. And this is what they gave Saul.

And Rabbi Shmuel bar Naḥmani said: The thigh and the upper portion mentioned in the verse are

the

thigh and the shofi Shofi is the thick flesh found around the thigh]

[shofi—the thick flesh found around the thigh].

If so,

what

is the reason that it was written

“and the upper portion”?

The answer is:

the shofi rests upon the thigh,

it is located on top of the thigh, and for that reason it is called “the upper portion.”

We learned in our Mishna:

A woman may not seclude herself with them,

with idolaters.

The Gemara discusses this:

With what

circumstances are we dealing? With regard to which form of seclusion was the prohibition of the Mishna stated?

If you say that it is with one,

if it is said that the prohibition against secluding oneself with a gentile applies to seclusion with one gentile, then is seclusion

of the same kind

as this [seclusion with one person]

with regard to a Jew,

with one Jewish man,

permitted

—is it permitted?

The Gemara proves that even with a Jew, it is prohibited for one woman to seclude herself.

But didn’t we learn: One man may not seclude himself

even

with two women?

Since women are lightminded, there is concern that both of them will consent to transgression. And by a kal va-chomer, it is prohibited for one man to seclude himself with one woman.

And if this prohibition was stated with regard to Jews, why is it necessary to inform us that it applies even with a gentile?