Taanit 13a (יג.) — the Talmud in English

The Gemara asks: From where do we know that this is the order of events?

Perhaps I should reverse it

I should reverse the order and say that during the first half of the day they read from the Torah and the Haftarah and beseeched for mercy, while during the second half they examined the affairs of the city!

The Gemara explains:

That cannot enter your mind

do not entertain such a possibility.

As it is written

that Nehemiah son of Hacaliah said:

“And there gathered to me everyone who trembled at the words of the God of Israel over the transgression of the exiles, etc.”

and I sat in desolation until the evening. This means that worthy and upright members of the Jewish people came to him to report the transgression and sin of the people of the exile, in order to separate them from sin.

And it is written

later in the verse:

“And at the evening offering I arose from my fast,

and having rent my garment and my robe, I fell upon my knees

and spread out my palms to the Lord.”

And from the fact that Nehemiah prayed and pleaded toward evening ,

it follows that during the first half of the day they examined the affairs of the city.

Rafram bar Pappa said that Rav Ḥisda said: Any

prohibition against bathing that the Sages imposed

because of mourning, such as

the fast of

Tisha Be’av , ,

,

which is due to mourning over the destruction of the Temple ,

and

all the more so an actual

mourner

for whom someone close has died,

is prohibited

from bathing

whether in

water

hot

or

whether in cold water.

The Gevurat Ari asked: What is the meaning of the expression " such as Tisha Be’av and a mourner "

But

But any

prohibition against bathing

that is because of

the prohibition against

pleasure, such as on a public fast,

then specifically

bathing in hot water is prohibited,

because it gives him pleasure. But

in cold water

it is permitted,

since such bathing is not for pleasure, but only for cleanliness .

Rav Idi bar Avin said: We, too, have learned this in our Mishna

we too have stated this matter. For regarding a public fast the Mishna says:

“And they lock the bathhouses.”

This indicates that only bathing in bathhouses, which use hot water, is prohibited. But bathing in cold water is permitted.

Abaye said to him:

What proof is there from the wording of the Mishna?

And if

the tanna had held that even

bathing in cold water is prohibited,

meaning that it is forbidden to bathe even in cold rivers, would

“They dam the rivers” have been what he needed to teach

the tanna should have taught?!

It is certainly impossible to teach this, since it is not possible to dam the rivers in order to prevent bathing in them.

And since in any event the tanna would have had to teach, “They lock the bathhouses,” whether bathing is prohibited only in hot water or even in cold water, there is no proof from the wording of our Mishna .

Rav Shisha, son of Rav Idi, said:

There truly is no proof from this wording. Rather,

my father

Rav Idi, who was Rav Shisha’s father,

found this difficult

in our Mishna:

Since we have learned

that is, we already stated at the beginning of the Mishna that

bathing is prohibited,

why do I need “They lock the bathhouses”?

Why did the tanna teach that the bathhouses must be locked? If no one bathes, the bathhouses are automatically of no use!

Rather, learn from this:

specifically

in hot water

in the bathhouses

it is prohibited

to bathe. But

in cold water

it is permitted.

And therefore the tanna taught, “And they lock the bathhouses,” to teach us that bathing is prohibited specifically in hot water, like the water in bathhouses.

Let us say that this supports him

Rav Ḥisda, who said that anything prohibited because of mourning is prohibited even in cold water, from the following beraita.

This is what we learned in a beraita:

All those obligated to immerse,

such as a menstruant woman and a woman after childbirth,

immerse in their usual manner

as they ordinarily immerse,

both on Tisha Be’av and on Yom Kippur.

And now we must clarify

in what,

in which water, do they immerse?

If you say

that they immerse

in

water

that is hot,

water heated over a fire, this cannot be said. For

is there such a thing as immersion in hot water

is it possible? For water heated in a vessel over a fire

is drawn water

it is

drawn water , and it is prohibited to immerse in drawn water; rather, one must immerse specifically in rainwater or spring water!

Rather, no

the beraita must certainly be speaking

of cold water.

And

specifically

those obligated to immerse

yes, they do indeed immerse in cold water even on Tisha Be’av and Yom Kippur, because immersion at its appointed time is a mitzva ,

as one hastens to purify himself.

But

another person one who is not obligated to immerse may not bathe even in cold water! Rav Ḥana bar Katina said: There is no proof from here. For it may indeed be said that the beraita is speaking of immersion in hot water that was not heated in a vessel. But how is it possible for the water to be hot without having been heated in a vessel over a fire? It was necessary the words of the beraita were necessary

only with regard to the hot springs of Tiberias,

which are spring water and are already hot at their source.

Only those obligated to immerse are permitted to immerse in hot water. But everyone else is prohibited from bathing in hot water and permitted to bathe in cold water.

The Gemara raises an objection:

If so, say the latter clause

say the end of the beraita, where we learned that there was a dispute and

Rabbi Ḥanina, the deputy High Priest, said

that even those obligated to immerse do not immerse on these days, because

it is appropriate

that is, it is fitting

for our Temple to lose one immersion on its account once a year,

even an immersion that is a mitzva.

And if you say

if your statement is correct, that

bathing in cold water is permitted

even for everyone on Tisha Be’av and Yom Kippur, and that refraining from it does not constitute a diminution of the honor of the House of God, why should those obligated to immerse forgo their immersion on these days?

Let them bathe in cold water!

Rather, it must be that bathing even in cold water is prohibited for everyone, and it was permitted only for those obligated to immerse. Rabbi Ḥanina disagreed and said that even those obligated to immerse should not immerse in cold water, because it is appropriate for our Temple to forgo one immersion on its account!

Rav Pappa said:

It may indeed be said that for everyone, bathing is prohibited specifically in hot water, but in cold water it is permitted. And those obligated to immerse were permitted to immerse even in hot water. In fact, Rabbi Ḥanina did not come to prohibit bathing in cold water for those obligated to immerse, but only in hot water. Therefore, if it is possible to immerse in cold water, the immersion is indeed not forfeited; rather, they should immerse in cold water.

And when Rabbi Ḥanina said in the beraita, “It is appropriate for our Temple to forgo one immersion on its account,” he was speaking

in a place

where

cold water is not commonly available

where cold water in which to immerse is not readily found . In such a place, if immersion in hot water were prohibited, they would be unable to immerse at all. Rabbi Ḥanina said that despite this, it is appropriate for our Temple to forgo one immersion on its account.

Apparently, only the city of Tiberias is such a place, since only there is immersion in hot water possible, in the hot springs of Tiberias. The Gemara is saying that cold water is not commonly available there. If so, the wording of the Gemara, "

in a place where cold water is not commonly available

", is somewhat difficult, since there is no such place other than Tiberias.

Come and hear: When

the Sages said that on a public fast

work is prohibited, they said so only during the day.

But at night

it is permitted

to work .

But when he is walking on the road outside the city, it is permitted,

because walking in such a manner is dangerous if he does not wear shoes.

What are the circumstances?

How should travelers conduct themselves?

And when

the Sages said that on a public fast

wearing shoes is prohibited, they said so only when he is

in the city. But when he travels on the road outside the city, it is permitted, because traveling in this manner is dangerous if he does not wear shoes. How so? How should travelers conduct themselves? When he sets out on the road, he puts on his shoes.

And when he

enters the city

after completing his journey, he

removes

his shoes.

And when

the Sages said that on a public fast

bathing is prohibited, they said so only

with regard to bathing

one’s entire body.

But

washing

one’s face, hands, and feet is

permitted.

And likewise,

just as we stated these distinctions in the law [such as the distinction between one traveling on the road and one who is in the city with regard to wearing shoes] concerning a public fast, so

you find

these distinctions also

in one who has been ostracized

one whom the court ostracized, who must observe the practices of mourning

and in a mourner.

that it is speaking of bathing

in hot water, this cannot be said. For washing

one’s face, hands, and feet

in hot water—

is it permitted

to a mourner?

But Rav Sheshet said:

This concludes the wording of the beraita.

Now, when the tanna taught in the beraita that the same law applies to one who has been ostracized and to a mourner,

does this not mean

with regard to all of them

that the statement concerns all the distinctions mentioned, including bathing? And he said that even for one who has been ostracized or a mourner, bathing is prohibited specifically over the entire body, but washing the face and hands is permitted!

And with regard to what

that is, in which circumstances, is this said?

If you say

that it is speaking of bathing

in hot water, this cannot be said. For

washing one’s face, hands, and feet in hot water is it permitted for a mourner?! But did Rav Sheshet not say: A mourner is prohibited even from placing

his

finger in hot water!

Rather, no

it must be that the beraita is speaking of bathing

in cold water!

And the tanna taught that bathing over the entire body is prohibited, while washing only the face, hands, and feet is permitted.

It is thus proven that on a public fast bathing over the entire body is prohibited even in cold water!

The Gemara rejects the proof:

No.

The beraita is not speaking of cold water.

Actually,

the beraita is speaking specifically

of hot water.

In that case, bathing the entire body is prohibited, while washing only the face, hands, and feet is permitted. But in cold water, bathing even the entire body is permitted.

And what is difficult for you

from what we learned:

“And likewise, you find this with one who has been ostracized and with a mourner,”

how can it be said that a mourner is permitted to wash part of his body in hot water, when he is prohibited even from placing a finger in hot water—

this is not a difficulty.

For when we learned at the end of the beraita that even with regard to one who has been ostracized and a mourner one finds the distinctions stated concerning a fast,

it applies to the other matters

that were taught in the beraita: wearing shoes and anointing . In these matters, one who has been ostracized and a mourner likewise have the same law as on a public fast.

—he is permitted to thin his hair somewhat with a razor.

therefore the baraita must be speaking about washing

Rashi wrote. However, in the beraita before us anointing is not mentioned.

But what we learned in the beraita, that the prohibition against bathing in hot water applies specifically to the entire body, while washing the face, hands, and feet is permitted, refers specifically to a public fast. But for one who has been ostracized or a mourner, washing even the face, hands, and feet in hot water is prohibited.

Come and hear, as Rabbi Abba the priest said in the name of Rabbi Yosei the priest: There was

an incident

in which the sons of Rabbi Yosei ben Rabbi Ḥanina died, and he bathed in cold water all seven days.

We see from this that a mourner is permitted to bathe in cold water!

The Gemara rejects the proof:

There

in the incident involving Rabbi Yosei ben Rabbi Ḥanina,

it was

when mourning followed upon mourning,

as his two sons died one after the other. Since his mourning lasted longer than usual, they permitted him to bathe in cold water even during the days of his mourning.

And as we find in a beraita, that when mourning follows upon mourning, they are lenient with him:

As it was taught: If mourning follows upon mourning, one after the other,

and for this reason

his hair became burdensome

his hair grew thick and weighed upon him, since a mourner is prohibited from having a haircut—

he may thin it with a razor he is permitted to thin his hair somewhat with a razor.

But what we taught in the baraita, that the prohibition of washing in chamin applies to the whole body whereas the face, hands and feet are permitted — this refers specifically to a public fast. But with a menuda and a mourner — even the face, hands and feet are forbidden to wash in chamin.

Hear a proof, for Rabbi Abba the priest said in the name of Rabbi Yosei the priest: an incident

there was

. Come and hear, as Rabbi Abba the priest in the name of Rabbi Yossi the priest said: There was an incident — the sons of Rabbi Yossi son of Rabbi Ḥanina died, and he washed in cold for the whole seven (days).

Behold, this shows that a mourner is permitted to wash in cold!

The Gemara rejects the proof:

there

there, in the incident involving Rabbi Yosei ben Rabbi Hanina

when his bereavements followed one another

his two sons died one after the other; because his mourning lasted longer than usual, they permitted him to wash in cold water even during mourning

as we find in the baraita, when bereavements follow one another, they ease the mourner’s burden

for it was taught: when bereavements follow one another,

and therefore

his hair became heavy

his hair grew abundant and weighed on him, since a mourner may not cut his hair

he may ease the burden with a razor

he is permitted to thin his hair somewhat with a razor.

And

likewise, although a mourner is forbidden to wash his garments, nevertheless such a mourner, whose mourning has overtaken him,

washes his garment in water.

Rav Hisda said:

only

with a razor,

since this is an unusual manner [for ordinarily the hairs are cut with scissors], did they permit him to trim his hair.

But not

did they permit him to trim it

with scissors—

in the usual manner.

And likewise, that which they permitted him to wash his garment, this means only

in water.

And not with natron

, nor with sand,

with which it is customary to wash, because they whiten the laundry more.

Rava said: A mourner is permitted to bathe in cold water throughout all seven days, as is the case with meat and wine

[as he is permitted with meat and wine], for they are pleasurable like cold water.