Sotah 4a (ד.) — the Talmud in English

And how much

is

the measure of seclusion?

What is the amount of time during which, if she is secluded with him after the warning, we are concerned that she became defiled and is forbidden to her husband as a matter of uncertainty—

the time required for defilement.

And what is the measure of defilement? —

The time required for intercourse.

And what is the measure of intercourse? —

The time required for initial penetration,

the amount of time required for the organ to touch that place.

And what is the measure of initial penetration? —

The time required to walk around a palm tree,

the amount of time it takes a person to walk around a palm tree,

the statement of Rabbi Yishmael.

Rabbi Eliezer says:

The measure of the time of seclusion is —

the time required to mix the cup,

the amount of time it takes to mix water into a quarter-log cup of wine.

Rabbi Yehoshua says:

The measure of the time of seclusion is —

the time required to drink it,

a quarter-log cup.

Ben Azzai says:

The measure of the time of seclusion is —

the time required

for

roasting an egg.

Rabbi Akiva says:

The measure of the time of seclusion is —

the time required to swallow it,

to drink the egg.

Rabbi Yehuda ben Beteira says:

The measure of the time of seclusion is —

the time required to swallow

the contents of

three eggs, one after another.

Rabbi Eliezer ben Yirmeya says:

The measure of the time of seclusion is —

the time required

for a weaver

to tie a weaver’s thread,

to tie the thread that tore in the middle of his weaving.

Hanin ben Pinhas says:

The measure of the time of seclusion is —

the time required for her to extend

her

hand into her mouth to take a splinter,

to remove the splinter lodged between her teeth.

Pelimo says:

The measure of the time of seclusion is —

the time required for her to extend her hand into a basket to take a loaf —

although there is no proof for this,

that the measure is the time required to extend her hand into a basket, nevertheless we find

a hint to the matter —

for it is written in Proverbs: “

For on account of a prostitute, a man is reduced to a loaf of bread.”

Thus, the verse compares the matter of a prostitute to a loaf of bread. Although this is not a complete proof, since the verse does not speak of extending a hand, there is nevertheless a hint to the matter.

The Gemara asks:

And why do I need all these?

Why did the tanna elaborate and write that the measure is the time required for defilement, the time required for intercourse, the time required for initial penetration, and the time required to walk around a palm tree? He could have written concisely that the measure of seclusion is the measure of defilement, and the measure of defilement is the measure of walking around a palm tree.

The Gemara answers:

They are necessary —

For if the tanna had stated

only

“the time required for defilement,” I would have said

that the required measure is

the time required for

her defilement and her persuasion,

that the time required for defilement alone is insufficient; rather, the time required for the needs of intercourse is also necessary, including the time needed to persuade her until she consents.

It teaches us

that the measure of defilement is only

the time required for intercourse

alone, and it is unnecessary to wait for her to remain with him for the additional time required for persuasion, since he may already have persuaded her before she secluded herself with him, and as soon as she secluded herself with him they could already have performed the act of intercourse.

And if the tanna had stated

only

“the time required for intercourse,” I would have said: the time required for completion of intercourse,

and the amount of time required for completion of intercourse is necessary.

It teaches us

that the amount of time during which there could have been

initial penetration is sufficient.

And had it taught us “the time required for initial penetration,”

even if it had stated “the time required for intercourse and the time required for initial penetration,”

I would have said: the time required for initial penetration and her persuasion;

I would have said that “the time required for intercourse” means the time required for initial penetration, and comes to exclude the need for the time required for completion of intercourse. However, it would still not have taught us that seclusion for the time required for persuasion is unnecessary. Therefore —

It teaches us “the time required for defilement,”

for the tanna wrote “the time required for defilement,” from which it would have been understood that the time required for defilement and persuasion is necessary. Then the tanna wrote “the time required for intercourse,” teaching us that seclusion for the time required for intercourse is sufficient, and seclusion for the time required for persuasion is not also necessary. Then the tanna wrote “the time required for initial penetration,” teaching us that seclusion for the time required for completion of intercourse is not necessary; rather, the time required for initial penetration is sufficient.

And concerning this Rabbi Eliezer concludes:

And how much is the time required

for initial penetration? —

The time required to walk around a palm tree.

The Gemara asks:

And he raises a contradiction,

from the Tosefta—

It is written in the verse: “

And she was secluded,”

indicating that the woman becomes forbidden through seclusion.

And how much is the measure of seclusion? We have not heard.

When it says—that is, when the verse says—

“And she became defiled”—

Since the Torah writes that seclusion renders her forbidden because we are concerned that she became defiled,

you must say

that therefore we say the measure is —

the time required for defilement, the time required for intercourse, the time required for initial penetration, and the time required for a palm branch to return —

the statement of Rabbi Eliezer.

Rabbi Yehoshua says: The time required to mix the cup.

Ben Azzai says: The time required to drink it.

Rabbi Akiva says: The time required to roast an egg.

Rabbi Yehuda ben Beteira says: The time required to swallow it.

The Gemara asks:

It might enter your mind: “Walking around a palm tree” is identical to “a palm branch returning.”

The measure of Rabbi Yishmael, who says in the first beraita that it is the time required to walk around a palm tree, and the measure of Rabbi Eliezer, who says in the second beraita that it is the time required for a palm branch to return, are the same measure.

And if so, the following difficulty arises:

There,

in the first beraita,

Rabbi Yishmael said, “the time required to walk around a palm tree,” and Rabbi Eliezer disagreed with him,

saying that the measure is the time required to mix the cup, implying that Rabbi Eliezer disputes the measure of walking around a palm tree.

Whereas

here,

in the second beraita,

Rabbi Eliezer said, “the time required for a palm branch to return.”

This is the same as Rabbi Yishmael’s measure in the first beraita. There, it implies that he disagrees with him, whereas here it implies that he agrees with him.

The Gemara answers:

Abaye said:

Rabbi Yishmael’s measure, when he says the time required to walk around a palm tree, is the amount of time it takes for

a person to walk around it

on foot, whereas Rabbi Eliezer’s measure, when he says the time required for a palm branch to return, is the measure of

a return by wind,

when the wind pushes a palm branch and it returns to its place.

If so, Rabbi Eliezer’s view in the second beraita is not the same amount of time as Rabbi Yishmael’s measure in the first beraita.

The Gemara is uncertain:

Rav Ashi inquired:

What is meant by

“a return by wind”?

Is it: Just as it goes and returns, so it comes back?

Is it the amount of time in which the wind pushes the branch and it returns?

Or perhaps: Just as it goes and comes back and then the branch remains standing in its place.

That is, it is not sufficient to measure the amount of time required for the branch to return to its place; rather, the amount of time required for the branch to cease moving from the swaying caused by the wind is also necessary.

And we conclude:

Teyku.

The Gemara asks:

There,

in the first beraita,

Rabbi Eliezer said

that the measure is

the time required to mix the cup; here,

in the second beraita, Rabbi Eliezer said that the measure is

the time required for a palm branch to return.

The Gemara answers:

Both this and that are one measure.

They are both the same measure, because the amount of time the wind takes to move and return the branch is the same amount of time required to mix the cup; Rabbi Eliezer merely stated the measure in two ways.

The Gemara asks:

There,

in the first beraita,

Rabbi Yehoshua said

that the measure is

the time required to drink it.

Whereas

here,

in the second beraita,

he said

that the measure is

the time required to mix the cup.

The Gemara answers:

Say: The time required to mix it and drink it.

Rabbi Yehoshua’s intention is the amount of time required to mix the cup and drink it; Rabbi Yehoshua stated his words as a continuation of Rabbi Eliezer’s words, meaning that mixing the cup alone is insufficient, and drinking it as well is necessary.

[And the reason he stated “mixing” in the second beraita, rather than “drinking,” is that ordinarily mixing is done for drinking, since the wine is spoiled by the water if one does not drink it immediately.]

The Gemara asks:

Why not say: Both this and that are one measure!?

Why do we not explain that Rabbi Yehoshua’s intention is only the measure of mixing, and that he stated two descriptions of the same amount of time, as we explained with regard to Rabbi Eliezer?

The Gemara answers:

If so,

Rabbi Yehoshua

would be identical to Rabbi Eliezer,

since this is Rabbi Eliezer’s measure in the first beraita. What, then, did Rabbi Yehoshua add by saying “the time required to drink it”? Necessarily, his intention is that the time required to drink it is also necessary.

The Gemara asks:

There,

in the first beraita,

Ben Azzai said

that the measure is

the time required to roast an egg, whereas

here,

in the second beraita,

he said

that the measure is

the time required to drink it.

The Gemara answers:

Both this and that are one measure,

as these are two descriptions of the same amount of time.

The Gemara asks:

There,

in the first beraita,

Rabbi Akiva said

that the measure is

the time required to swallow it; here,

in the second beraita,

he said

that the measure is

the time required to roast an egg.

The Gemara answers:

Say: The time required to roast an egg and swallow it.

He stated his words as an addition to Ben Azzai’s words: it is insufficient for her to be secluded for the time required to roast the egg; rather, she must be secluded for the time required to swallow and drink it as well, since the usual practice is to drink it while it is hot, and not when it is soft.

The Gemara asks:

Why not say: Both this and that are one measure!

Why do we not explain that these are two descriptions of the same amount of time? From where do we know that he came to add that the measures of both are necessary?

The Gemara answers:

If so,

Rabbi Akiva

would be identical to Ben Azzai! And

what did Rabbi Akiva add to Ben Azzai by saying “the time required to swallow it”? It is the same measure.

It must be that Rabbi Akiva’s intention is that the measure of time required to roast it and swallow it is necessary.

The Gemara asks:

There,

in the first beraita,

Rabbi Yehuda ben Beteira said

that the measure is

the time required to swallow three eggs, one after another. Whereas here,

in the second beraita,

he said

that the measure is

the time required to swallow it.

The Gemara answers:

He said this according to Rabbi Akiva’s statement.

His intention is not to disagree with Rabbi Akiva, but to respond to Rabbi Akiva’s words,

who said

that Rabbi Akiva said

“we measure by roasting and swallowing,”

as we explained: the time required for roasting, in accordance with Ben Azzai, and also the time required to swallow it. Rabbi Yehuda said to him: Why must you say this?

Say: The measure of swallowing alone.

State the measure solely in terms of swallowing, since the measure of roasting and swallowing is equivalent to the measure of

swallowing three eggs one after another—that is,

it is the same measure as

roasting and swallowing

one egg.

We learned in the first beraita:

Rabbi Eliezer ben Yirmeya says: The time required to tie a weaver’s thread. —

He inquired

and was uncertain—

Rav Ashi:

Was Rabbi Eliezer ben Yirmeya’s intention

that they are far apart,

that the two threads that were severed are far from one another, making it take more time

to join them, or that they are close together

and therefore require less time? [unclear: the source text is corrupt at the end of this segment]

Hanin ben Pinhas says

that the measure of seclusion is

the time required for her to extend her hand into her mouth to take a splinter —

He inquired,

and was uncertain—

Rav Ashi:

Was Hanin ben Pinhas’s intention

that it is tightly wedged,

so that the splinter is lodged tightly and it takes more time to remove it,

or that it is not tightly wedged,

so that it takes less time to remove it?

Teyku.

Pelimo says,

that the measure of seclusion is

the time required for her to extend her hand into a basket to take a loaf —

He inquired

and was uncertain—

Rav Ashi:

Was Pelimo’s intention

that it is tightly wedged,

so that the loaf is wedged tightly inside the basket and it takes more time to remove it,

or that it is not tightly wedged,

so that the measure is taken with regard to a loaf that is not wedged tightly in the basket, which takes a little time to remove?

And there is likewise a further uncertainty:

with regard to a new one,

whether the basket is new, making it more difficult to remove the bread because the threads of the weaving protrude there,

or with regard to an old one,

an old basket, from which it is easier to remove the bread.

And there is likewise a further uncertainty:

with regard to hot bread,

whether his intention is to bread that is hot and naturally becomes crushed and slips from the hand, making it take more time to remove,

or with regard to cold bread,

bread that is cold and easier to remove.