Shabbat 86b — the Talmud in English

And we challenge:

But

you are forced to say that the women did not immerse on Friday night, for if so,

they would be tevulei yom

at the time of the Giving of the Torah, since they did not have sunset after their immersion. Rather, certainly they immersed on Friday, and if so, according to everyone one day must be subtracted from the count

? And we answer:

Abaye bar Avin and Rav Hanina bar Avin both say: The Torah was given to tevulei yom!

For the Torah did not insist that there not be tevulei yom at the time of the Giving of the Torah; rather, sunset is stated as necessary only with regard to sacred things .

Mareimar was sitting and reciting this teaching

of the amoraim, that the Torah was given to tevulei yom.

Ravina said to Mareimar:

Did you say

“was given”,

meaning that they indeed immersed on Friday night,

or did you say “was fit to be given”,

meaning that it was fit to be given to tevulei yom, and therefore, although in practice they immersed while it was still day, this day is to be included in the count?

For if they had emitted [semen] after the immersion, before nightfall, they would indeed have been impure, and then they would have immersed again at night, since the Torah is fit to be given to tevulei yom. Rather, in practice they did not need this, because they did not emit [semen]; therefore, the count ends only on Friday night.

He said to him

Mareimar:

“I am saying ‘was fit to be given’!”

And we challenge Rabbi Akiva, who requires five periods of time:

Then let them immerse between the evenings

on Friday night [and it is called “between the evenings,” that is, twilight, because its twilight differs in its law from that of all the days of the week],

and let them receive the Torah between the evenings?

And since the Torah was not given until the morning, learn from this that if they had emitted [semen] at night, they would have been impure [and would have immersed again], and if so, another period of time must be added

? And we answer:

Rabbi Isaac said:

It is written,

“Not from the beginning

of the giving of the Torah

did I speak in secret,” that is, at night. Rather, [I spoke] openly, during the day

.

And we still challenge Rabbi Akiva:

Then let them immerse on Shabbat morning, and let them receive the Torah on Shabbat morning?

And why did they need to separate from Wednesday morning? Surely it would have sufficed for them to separate from Thursday night, and by Shabbat morning there would be five periods of time, and then they could immerse, since the Torah was given to tevulei yom.

And we answer:

Rabbi Isaac said: So that these would not be going to receive the Torah while those would be going to immerse.

Rabbi Hiyya bar Abba said that Rabbi Yohanan said: This is the statement of Rabbi Ishmael and Rabbi Akiva. But

the Sages say: We require six complete periods of time

in order to purify [one from] an emission that occurs afterward.

For they hold like Rabbi Akiva, that they separated from the woman on Wednesday morning, but they add one further period of time, because an emission on Friday night still renders impure. And those who emitted [semen] on Friday night immersed again on Shabbat morning; therefore, the Torah was given on Shabbat morning and not at night, because six periods of time had not yet been completed [and they do not hold on account of “Not from the beginning did I speak in secret,” above].

Rav Hisda said: The dispute

of the tannaim as to from which day a seminal discharge becomes putrid is specifically with regard to a seminal discharge

that separated from the woman,

which deteriorates because it becomes heated in her body.

But one that separated from the man

onto a garment—

it is impure as long as it is moist. [But once it dries, it does not render impure, since it is not fit to produce seed.]

Rav Sheshet challenged:

It was taught in a beraita: It is written,

“And every garment and every skin upon which there shall be a seminal discharge”—

excluding a seminal discharge that has become putrid,

which does not render impure.

What, is it not

speaking of a seminal discharge

that separated from the man,

saying that it is pure once it becomes putrid, even if it is moist, for it did not teach “excluding one that has dried”? And this is a difficulty against Rav Hisda ?

And we answer:

No!

Rather, it is speaking of one

that separated from the woman

and became spoiled.

.

Rav Pappa inquired: A seminal discharge of an Israelite

that remained

in the womb of a gentile woman

[a non-Jewish woman]—

what is [the law]?

Does it become putrid after three days, as in the womb of an Israelite woman, or not? And the practical difference is that if she emits it after three days, the seminal discharge will not render impure one who touches it [and he specified a seminal discharge of an Israelite, for one of a gentile is not impure].

And the sides of the inquiry are:

Do we say that it is specifically

an Israelite, who is concerned about the mitzvot,

who is worried and anxious about fulfilling the mitzvot,

heats [A0084]][is hot]

[heated]

their body.

For the concern heats the body [as it is written, “My heart grew hot within me”], and the seminal discharge deteriorates from the heat. But

a gentile, who is not concerned about the mitzvot, does not.

Or perhaps, since they eat

the gentiles

repulsive creatures and creeping things,

heats

[is hot]

their body.

And if you would say

with regard to gentiles that

since they eat repulsive creatures and creeping things, their body heats,

it still requires inquiry:

A seminal discharge

in the womb of an animal—

what is [the law]?

Do we say that it is specifically

a woman, who has a corridor,

in front of the womb, which prevents air from entering the womb; therefore

the seminal discharge becomes putrid

the seminal discharge.

But an animal, which does not have a corridor,

does not.

Or perhaps it makes no difference.

And we conclude:

Teyku!

The Sages taught: On the sixth of the month

of Sivan,

the Ten Commandments were given to Israel.

Rabbi Yose says: On the seventh of it

the Ten Commandments were given.

Rava said: Everyone agrees that on the first day of the month

of Sivan

they came to the Sinai Desert.

For

it is written here, “On this day they came to the Sinai Desert,” and it is written there, “This month shall be for you the beginning of months.”

And we derive by gzera shava: “this”—“this”:

Just as there, the beginning of the month, so too here, the beginning of the month.

And everyone agrees that on Shabbat the Torah was given to Israel.

For

it is written here

in the Ten Commandments,

“Remember the day of Shabbat, to sanctify it,” and it is written there, “And Moses said to the people: Remember this day

on which you went out from Egypt

”— just as there, in the midst of the day,

of the exodus from Egypt, the command to remember was said to them, as it is written, “Remember this day ,”

so too here, in the midst of the day,

of Shabbat, “Remember the day of Shabbat, to sanctify it,” was said to them.

When they disagree is regarding the fixing of the month,

on which day the beginning of the month was fixed—

Rabbi Yose holds: On the first day of the week

the moon was fixed,

the month was fixed,

the month of Sivan was fixed, and then they came to the Sinai Desert.

And on the first day of the week He did not say anything to them,

the Almighty,

because of the weariness of the journey.

On the second day of the week He said to them: “And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests,” and the entire passage whose beginning is “And Moses went up to God.” And this ascent was on the second day, early in the morning, as we said above, that all the ascents of Moses were early in the morning.

and the entire passage beginning, “And Moses went up to God.” This ascent took place early on the second day, as we said above: all of Moses’ ascents took place early in the morning.