Shabbat 86b (פו:) — the Talmud in English

And we raise an objection:

But

you are forced to say that the women did not immerse on Friday night, for if so,

they would have been tevulei yom

at the time of the Giving of the Torah, since sunset had not yet followed their immersion. Rather, certainly they immersed on Friday, and if so, according to everyone, one day must be deducted from the calculation?

And we answer:

Abaye bar Avin and Rav Ḥanina bar Avin both say: The Torah was given to tevulei yom!

The Torah did not insist that there be no tevulei yom at the time of the Giving of the Torah; rather, the requirement of sunset is stated only with regard to sacrificial food.

Mareimar was sitting and reciting this teaching

of the amoraim, that the Torah was given to tevulei yom.

Ravina said to Mareimar:

Did

you say, “it was given,”

meaning that they in fact immersed on Friday night,

or did you say, “it was fit to be given,”

meaning that it was fit for the Torah to be given to tevulei yom, and therefore, although in practice they immersed during the day, that day should be included in the calculation?

For if they had discharged semen after immersion, before nightfall, they would indeed have been impure, and they would then have immersed again at night, since the Torah was fit to be given to tevulei yom. However, in practice they did not need to do so, because they did not discharge semen; therefore, the calculation ends only on Friday night.

He said to him

Mareimar:

I said, “it was fit to be given”!

And we raise an objection to Rabbi Akiva, who requires five periods of separation:

Let them immerse between the evenings

on Friday night [and it is called “between the evenings,” that is, twilight, because its twilight differs in its legal status from that of all the other days of the week],

and let them receive the Torah between the evenings?

Since the Torah was not given until morning, learn from this that if they had discharged semen during the night, they would have been impure [and would have immersed again]; and if so, another period of separation must be added?

And we answer:

Rabbi Yitzḥak said:

It is written:

“Not from the beginning

[at the beginning of the Giving of the Torah]

did I speak in secret,”

that is, at night. Rather, it was in public, during the day.

And we still raise an objection to Rabbi Akiva:

Let them immerse on Shabbat morning, and let them receive the Torah on Shabbat morning?

Why, then, did they need to separate beginning Wednesday morning? It would have sufficed for them to separate beginning Thursday night, since by Shabbat morning there would be five periods of separation, and then they could immerse, since the Torah was given to tevulei yom.

And we answer:

Rabbi Yitzḥak said: So that these would not be going to receive the Torah while those were going to immerse.

Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: This is the statement of Rabbi Yishmael and Rabbi Akiva. But

the Sages say: We require six complete periods of separation

in order for a discharge occurring afterward to be rendered pure.

For they hold in accordance with Rabbi Akiva: They separated from the woman on Wednesday morning, but they add one further period of separation, because a discharge on Friday night still renders one impure. Those who discharged semen on Friday night immersed again on Shabbat morning. Therefore, the Torah was given on Shabbat morning and not at night, because six periods of separation had not yet been completed [and they do not accept the explanation based on “Not from the beginning did I speak in secret,” cited above].

Rav Ḥisda said: The dispute

among the tannaim as to from which day semen becomes spoiled applies specifically to semen

that separated from the woman,

because it deteriorates as a result of being heated by her body.

But semen that separated from the man

onto a garment—

it is impure as long as it is moist.

But once it has dried, it does not render one impure, since it is no longer fit to generate conception.]

Rav Sheshet raised an objection:

It was taught in a beraita: It is written,

“And any garment and any leather upon which there is semen”—

excluding semen that is spoiled,

which does not render one impure.

What, is it not

speaking of semen

that separated from the man,

teaching that it is pure once it has become spoiled, even if it is still moist, since it does not state: “excluding semen that has dried”? And this is a difficulty for Rav Ḥisda?

And we answer:

No!

Rather, it

is speaking of semen that separated from the woman

.

Rav Pappa raised a dilemma: Semen of a Jew

that remained

in the womb of a gentile woman [

a non-Jewish woman]—

what is the law?

Does it become spoiled after three days, as it does in the womb of a Jewish woman, or not? The practical difference is that if she discharges it after three days, the semen will not render one who touches it impure. [The semen of a Jew is specified, since semen of a gentile is not impure.]

And these are the sides of the dilemma:

Do we say that it is specifically

a Jew, who is concerned with mitzvot,

who is anxious and zealous regarding the observance of the mitzvot, whose

body becomes heated

[heated]

itself?

The anxiety heats the body [as it is written: “My heart was hot within me”], and the semen deteriorates because of the heat.

But a gentile, who is not concerned with mitzvot, does not

become heated, since they eat

gentiles

abominations and creeping things—

their bodies become heated

[heated]

themselves.

Or, if you say

with regard to gentiles that

since they eat abominations and creeping things, their bodies become heated,

there is still another question:

Semen

in the womb of an animal—

what is the law?

Do we say that it is specifically

a woman, who has a vestibule

before the womb, which prevents air from entering the womb; therefore

the semen becomes spoiled,

the semen?

But an animal, which does not have a vestibule,

does not.

Or perhaps there is no difference.

And we conclude:

Teyku!

The Sages taught: On the sixth of the month

of Sivan,

the Ten Commandments were given to Israel.

Rabbi Yosei says: On the seventh of it

the Ten Commandments were given.

Rava said: Everyone agrees that on the first of the month

of Sivan,

they came to the Sinai desert.

For

it is written here, “On this day they came to the Sinai desert,” and it is written there, “This month shall be for you the beginning of months.”

And we derive by means of the gzera shava “this”—“this”:

Just as there, it refers to the first of the month, so too here, it refers to the first of the month.

And everyone agrees that the Torah was given to Israel on Shabbat.

For

it is written here

in the Ten Commandments,

“Remember the day of Shabbat to sanctify it,” and it is written there, “And Moses said to the people: Remember this day

on which you went out of Egypt”—

just as there, at the very time of day

when the Exodus from Egypt took place, they were commanded to remember it, as it is written, “Remember this day,”

so too here, at the very time of day

of Shabbat, they were told, “Remember the day of Shabbat to sanctify it.”

They disagree with regard to the establishment of the month,

on which day the first of the month was established—

Rabbi Yosei holds: On the first day of the week

on Sunday,

the month was established,

the first of Sivan was established, and then they came to the Sinai desert.

And on the first day of the week He did not say anything to them,

the Holy One, blessed be He,

because of the weariness of the journey.

On the second day of the week He said to them: “And you shall be to Me a kingdom of kohanim,” and the entire passage beginning with “And Moses went up to God.” This ascent took place early on the second day, as we said above, that all of Moses’ ascents took place early in the morning.

and the entire passage beginning, “And Moses went up to God.” This ascent took place early on the second day, as we said above: all of Moses’ ascents took place early in the morning.