Rosh Hashanah 3b — the Talmud in English

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it refers to another reckoning!

Rav Pappa said:

Since in both verses “the twentieth year” is stated, we learn

“the twentieth year, the twentieth year” by means of a gzera shava.

To teach you that both are counted by the same reckoning:

Just as there,

just as in the second verse, the years are counted

for Artaxerxes,

so here,

in the first verse, the reckoning is

for Artaxerxes.

And we challenge this:

And from where,

do we know

that the event of Kislev

which was mentioned in the first verse

preceded

the event in Nisan [which was mentioned in the second verse]?

Perhaps

perhaps

the event of Nisan preceded!?

And according to this, it is possible that in truth the kings are counted from Nisan, and one verse is in Nisan of the twentieth year of Artaxerxes, while the other is afterward, in Kislev.

And we answer:

It cannot enter your mind

not to say so!

For it was taught in a beraita: The matters that Hanani said to Nehemiah in Kislev—

Nehemiah said them to the king in Nisan.

And it explains further:

The matters that Hanani said to Nehemiah in Kislev,

what were they?

As it is stated

[Nehemiah 1:1 and onward. The additions to the verses in brackets are based mainly on the explanation of the Metzudot]:

“The words of Nehemiah son of Hacaliah:

And it came to pass in the month of Kislev, in the twentieth year, and I

Nehemiah

was in Shushan the capital.

And Hanani, one of my brothers, came

[my associates],

he

and men from Judah, and I asked them about the Jews, the remnant

[the remnant of the Jews]

who remained

[in Jerusalem]

from the captivity

[of Babylon],

and about Jerusalem

[about the building of its walls].”

“And they said to me

[Hanani and the men who came with him from Judah]:

The survivors who remained from the captivity there in the province

[in Jerusalem, they are]

are in great trouble and disgrace. And the wall of Jerusalem is breached, and its gates have been burned with fire.”

And from where that he

said these matters to the king in Nisan?

As it is stated

[there, 2:1 and onward]:

“And it came to pass in the month of Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes

[Darius]

the king,

[they brought]

wine before him. And I lifted up the wine

[I, Nehemiah the cupbearer, carried the wine from the courtyard]

and gave it to the king. And I had not been

[accustomed ordinarily to come]

sad

[with a gloomy countenance]

before him. And the king said to me: Why are your face and your expression sad, when you are not ill?

This is nothing but sadness of heart

[that there is in your heart an evil desire to kill me with poison in this cup],

that there is in your heart an evil desire to kill me with poison in this cup,

and I became very frightened”

[because of the king’s accusation].

“And I said to the king: May the king live forever! Why should my face not be sad

[at a time]

when the city

[Jerusalem],

the place of the graves of my fathers, is desolate, and its gates are consumed with fire?”

“And the king said to me: For what are you asking?”

“And I prayed to the God of the heavens

[that He fulfill my request], and after my prayer,

and I said to the king”:

“If it is good before the king, and if your servant is good before you—

this is my request:

that you send me to Judah, to the city of the graves of my fathers, and I shall build it!”

“And the king said to me, while the queen

[and the queen was]

was sitting beside him:

How long will your journey be

[how long will the journey that you will take to Jerusalem be],

and when will you return

[here]?

And it was good before the king

[that I go to Jerusalem],

and I gave him a time”

when I would return.

And from all this we learn that the event in Kislev preceded the event in Nisan. And both were in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes.

And from here, the New Year for the kings of the nations is not in Nisan, but in Tishrei.

Rav Yosef objected,

a contradiction to what we learned above, that the New Year for the kings of the nations is in Tishrei:

It is stated in the Book of Haggai [1:15]:

“On the twenty-fourth day of the month, in the sixth

[in the sixth month, which is Elul]

in the second year of Darius,”

they began preparing the matters needed for the construction of the Second Temple, at the command of Haggai the prophet.

And it is written

in the following verse:

“In the seventh

[in the seventh month, which is Tishrei]

on the twenty-first day of the month

the word of the Lord was given through Haggai the prophet, saying.”

And it implies that it speaks of the same year mentioned in the preceding verse, namely, the second year of Darius.

And if it is so,

and if indeed the years of the kings of the nations are counted from Tishrei, then

“in the seventh month, in the third year” should have been required,

it should have said! For in Tishrei a new year of the reckoning of the kings of the nations begins!

He said,

he answered,

Rabbi Abbahu:

Cyrus—

he was a righteous king,

for because he was righteous they called him Koresh [that is, the word “righteous” with the order of the letters changed], and his name testifies concerning him.

Therefore—

they counted for him

his years from Nisan,

like the kings of Israel.

But for all the other kings of the nations, they count for them from Tishrei.

Rav Yosef challenged this

the Gemara’s answer with two objections:

One

[the first objection]:

For if so,

if they counted Cyrus’s years from Nisan,

the verses contradict one another,

the verses contradict one another:

For it is written

in the Book of Ezra [6:15]:

“And this house was completed

[the construction of this house, that is, the Second Temple, was completed]

until the third day of the month of Adar, which is the sixth year of the reign of King Darius

[on the third of Adar, in the sixth year of King Darius].”

And it was taught: At that same time in the following year, Ezra went up from Babylon, with his exiles

[that is, one year after the completion of the Temple work mentioned in the preceding verse, Ezra and his exiles departed from Babylon] .

And it is written

[there, 7:9]:

“And he came

Ezra

to Jerusalem, in the fifth month,

Av,

which was the seventh year of the king.”

And now there is a difficulty:

And if it is so,

if indeed Cyrus’s years are counted from Nisan—

“the eighth year” should have been required!

It should have said “the eighth year”! For the completion of the Temple was in Adar of the sixth year. Ezra departed from Babylon a year afterward [in the seventh year], and in the Av following it he arrived in Jerusalem. And since a new year begins in Nisan, it follows that Av was in the eighth year!

And furthermore,

Rav Yosef asks:

Indeed, Rabbi Abbahu said that Cyrus was a righteous king, but

is it comparable

and can one learn from this concerning Darius [whom the preceding verses prove was counted from Nisan] that he too was righteous?!

For

there,

in Rabbi Abbahu’s words,

Cyrus is mentioned,

whereas

here

[in the verses that Rav Yosef cited above]

Darius is mentioned!

And we answer the second objection:

It was taught: He is

Cyrus—

he is Darius ,

and

he is Artaxerxes!

Darius, son of Ahasuerus and Esther, who came after the reign of Ahasuerus, was also called Cyrus. [Rashi].

And why was he called by these three names?

“Cyrus”—

because

he was a righteous king [“Koresh,” with the order of the letters changed, is “kasher”].

“Artaxerxes”—

on account of his kingship.

on account of his sovereignty.

And what was his name—

“Darius” was his name.

And by this Rav Yosef’s second objection is resolved: Darius too was called Cyrus because he was a righteous king, and therefore the kings of Israel are counted for him.

But

nevertheless

still

there is a difficulty,

Rav Yosef’s first objection, for he proved from the verses in the Book of Ezra that Darius was not counted for from Nisan.

And we answer:

Rav Yitzhak said: There is no difficulty: Here,

in the verses in the Book of Haggai, which prove that Darius was not counted from Tishrei, it refers to

before he became corrupt,

before he became wicked, and therefore they counted for him from Nisan, like the kings of Israel.

Whereas

here,

when Ezra went up to Jerusalem [which is proven by the verse in Ezra 7:9 that he was not counted for from Nisan], it was

after he became corrupt,

after he became wicked. Therefore they counted for him from Tishrei, like the kings of the nations of the world.

Rav Kahana challenged him: Did he become corrupt!?

Did Darius become wicked?!

But it is written

in the Book of Ezra [6:9] that Darius sent a scroll to the non-Jewish authorities in Jerusalem. And this is what was written in it: