Rosh Hashanah 24b — the Talmud in English

But he may make

a menora

of five

lamps,

and of six

lamps,

and of eight

lamps.

And a

menora

of seven —

he may not make, even of the other kinds of metal.

For although concerning the menora it is stated: “And you shall make a menora of pure gold,” nevertheless the Gemara in Menahot [28b] derives from the verse that if he made it from other metals, it is valid; therefore it is forbidden to make something resembling it even from other metals.

Rabbi Yosei bar Judah says: Even of wood he may not make it.

Because even if they made a menora of wood in the Temple, it would be valid,

as the Hasmonean kings did

when they defeated the Greeks and drove them out of Jerusalem and purified the Temple, and they were poor and could not make the menora of gold.

And from them we learn that even a wooden menora is valid [and the reasoning of Rabbi Yosei bar Judah is explained in Menahot there ].

The Sages said to him:

But

is there proof from there

that even a wooden menora is valid?!

But the menora that the Hasmonean kings made was not of wood! Rather,

they were iron rods, and they plated them with b’atz,

tin.

And when

they became wealthy —

they made them of silver.

They became wealthy again

even more —

they made them of gold.

And the menora is never valid when made of wood, but only when made of metal.

And from the words of the beraita we learned that there is no prohibition against making figures resembling the celestial attendants, but only figures that are truly similar to them. And since it is impossible to make a figure truly resembling the moon, it is permitted to make its form.

And we raise an objection:

And

what if

celestial attendants that it is impossible to make like them —

is it permitted!?

Is it permitted to make figures like them?!

But it was taught:

It is stated [Exodus 20]:

“You shall not make with Me.”

You shall not make figures resembling My attendants who attend before Me on high.

And the Gemara assumes that the attendants “on high” are the sun, the moon, and the stars, which it is impossible to make truly like them!

And we answer:

Abaye said: The Torah did not prohibit

making figures resembling the sun, the moon, and the stars in the heavens.

Rather,

what the Torah prohibited making is

a figure of “four faces” together.

The face of an ox, a human being, a lion, and an eagle in one creature.

And this is resembling the holy creatures, as explained at the beginning of the Book of Ezekiel.

And the meaning of “with Me” is: a figure of the creatures dwelling with Me.

And we object:

If so, now, a human face by itself —

should it be permitted!?

Since one of the four faces of the holy creatures is a human face, and Abaye said that there is a prohibition only when one makes the figures of the four faces together, then it should be permitted to make the figure of a human face alone!

Why then,

why

was it taught: All faces are permitted

to make in their likeness,

except for a human face.

Rav Huna, son of Rav Idi, said: I heard from Abaye’s lecture,

I heard from Abaye’s lesson that this is how he expounded the verse

“You shall not make with Me” —

you shall not make Me!

That is, [you may not make] a human figure, since this is how I appear to the prophets in their visions.

And we raise an objection:

And the other attendants —

is it permitted!?

Is it permitted to make figures resembling the other attendants, apart from the form of a human being?

But it was taught: “You shall not make with Me” —

you shall not make figures resembling My attendants who attend before Me on high,

such as: the ophanim, the seraphim, the holy creatures, and the ministering angels!

Abaye said

he answered:

The Torah prohibited only the attendants in the upper compartment,

in the highest, seventh firmament, as it is stated, “with Me.”

But the sun, the moon, the stars, and the constellations are not so high; they are in the second firmament.

And we raise an objection:

And what about the attendants

who are

in the lower compartment —

is it permitted!?

Is it permitted to make something resembling them?!

But it was taught:

It is stated [Exodus 20]: “You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness that is in the heavens above or on the earth beneath.” And we expound:

“That is in the heavens” —

to include the sun and the moon, the stars and the constellations.

“Above” —

to include the ministering angels!

And we answer:

When that [beraita] was taught,

the entire intent of that beraita is regarding the prohibition

of worshipping them,

but it is permitted to make them.

And we raise an objection:

If,

if the beraita is speaking with regard to

worshipping them,

then

even

for a

small

worm

also

it is forbidden to worship! And why did the beraita mention only the inhabitants of the heavens?

And we answer:

Indeed, so it is.

Indeed, the beraita later says that it is also forbidden to worship a worm.

For it was taught

in a beraita:

“That is on the earth” —

to include mountains and hills, seas and rivers, channels

[outlets of water]

and valleys.

“Beneath” —

to include a small worm

[which dwells beneath the earth, within the ground].

But the Gemara rejects Abaye’s words: And we raise an objection:

And mere making —

is it permitted!?

Is it permitted to make something in the form of the attendants in the heavens without intending to worship them?!

But it was taught: “You shall not make with Me” —

this teaches

that you shall not make figures resembling My attendants who attend before Me, such as: the sun, the moon, the stars, and the constellations!

And from here it is proven that it is forbidden to make something in the form of the heavenly attendants even without intending to worship them.

And the earlier question of the Gemara returns: How did Rabban Gamaliel have figures of the moon? For it is forbidden to make them?

And we answer:

It is different with

different is

Rabban Gamaliel, for others

non-Jews

made them for him

.

And even though the Sages decreed that it is forbidden to tell a non-Jew to perform a prohibited act, for the sake of a mitzva they permitted it [Tosafot, Ritva].

And we object:

But what of Rav Judah, for others made for him

a forbidden figure on his ring [a ring with a seal on its head, with which he was accustomed to seal],

and

even so

Samuel said to Rav Judah: Sharp one

["sharp"]

! Destroy

ruin

the eye of this

figure

of yours.

Destroy the form of this one.

And we answer:

There,

there,

his seal was protruding.

And

it is forbidden to do so

because of suspicion,

lest they suspect him of worshipping this figure as idolatry.

As it was taught: A ring

with a form that it is forbidden to make:

If

its seal is protruding —

it is forbidden to place it

on his finger because of suspicion.

But it is permitted to seal with it

on wax [as was customary in their days], because when one seals with it on wax, the protrusion of the form in the ring causes the wax to sink in that form, and it is permitted to make a sunken form.

And if

its seal is sunken —

it is permitted to place it

on his finger.

But it is forbidden to seal with it

on wax, because on the wax a protruding form is made.

Therefore Samuel said to Rav Judah that he should destroy the protruding form that had been on his ring.

And from the words of the Gemara below it will be explained why Rabban Gamaliel did not need to destroy the figures in his possession.

And we raise an objection:

Do we indeed take account of suspicion?!

Do we indeed concern ourselves with this suspicion?!

But what of that synagogue “Shaf ve-yativ”

in Nehardea,

and was it not in that synagogue called “Shaf ve-yativ” [the name of a place] in Nehardea,

that there was a statue

a figure resembling the king.

And

nevertheless

they would enter,

they would enter it,

Rav, and Samuel, and Samuel’s father, and Levi, and they would pray there,

and they would pray there.

And they did not take account of suspicion,

they did not fear that people would suspect them, perhaps, of praying to idolatry!

And from here there is proof that we do not take account of this suspicion!

And we answer: A form belonging to

the public,

such as in a synagogue,

is different,

it differs from a form belonging to an individual, for it is permitted to retain it, since people do not suspect the public.

And we raise an objection:

But what of Rabban Gamaliel —

he is an individual!

And nevertheless he used the figures of the moon that he had and did not fear suspicion!

And we answer: Even though the figures belonged only to him, nevertheless

since

Rabban Gamaliel

is the prince —

many people are frequently with him.

Many people are frequently in his house, and this is like a form belonging to the public, whom people do not suspect.

If you wish, say instead,

and if you wish, you can answer that the figures of the moon in Rabban Gamaliel’s possession

were in sections

—

they were made of joints, and he would join them only when examining witnesses; they did not see this every day, and therefore there was no suspicion in the matter.

And if you wish, say instead:

Rabban Gamaliel made the figures of the moon in his possession himself, because, in order

to study, he did it,

he did this.

And it is written [Deuteronomy 18]: “You shall not learn to do according to the abominations of those nations.” And we expound:

“You shall not learn

in order

to

do” —

but you may learn

to do in order

to understand and instruct.

Mishna:

An incident in which two

witnesses came,

and said, “We saw it”

[the renewal of the moon]

in the east at dawn.