Pesachim 70b — the Talmud in English

Sh

esli

the

pesakh

v izobilii,

to est esli gruppa byla nebolshoy, a myasa pasKhalnoy zhertvy bylo tak mnogo na kazhdogo iz uchastnikov gruppy, chto oni mogli im nasytitsya, oni ne prinosili vmeste s nim prazdnichnuyu zhertvu.

Poetomu vladeltsy toporika ne pogruzhali ego v vodu dlya ochishcheniya, tak kak u nikh ne bylo kostey prazdnichnoy zhertvy, kotorye nuzhno bylo by razrubat.

Gemara zadaet vopros:

otkuda oni znali

vladeltsy toporika, trinadtsatogo nisana, chto im ne nuzhno pogruzhat toporik v vodu do zakhoda solntsa, poskolku na sleduyushchiy den oni ne prinesut prazdnichnuyu zhertvu, tak kak u nikh mnogo myasa pasKhalnoy zhertvy i ne budet kostey, kotorye nuzhno razrubat?

Ved do sleduyushchego dnya k etoy zhertve mogli prisoyedinit'sya mnogie lyudi, i togda im prishlos by prinosit prazdnichnuyu zhertvu, a znachit, toporik byl by nuzhen, chtoby razrubat im kosty.

Gemara pytayetsya ustanovit, chto na sleduyushchiy den toporik ne ponabitsya, poskolku prazdnichnuyu zhertvu ne budut prinosit iz-za togo, chto pasKhalnuyu zhertvu prinesli v sostoyanii ritualnoy neochishchennosti:

No togda, chto pasKhalnuyu zhertvu prinesli

v sostoyanii

ritualnoy neochishchennosti,

to est bolshinstvo naroda bylo ritualno neochishcheno, i im razreshili prinosit v sostoyanii neochishchennosti tolko pasKhalnuyu zhertvu, no ne prazdnichnuyu zhertvu.

Gemara oprovergaet i eto obosnovanie:

V konechnom schete, otkuda oni znali

vladeltsy toporika trinadtsatogo nisana [chto togda nuzhno pogruzit toporik v vodu dlya prazdnichnoy zhertvy], chto na sleduyushchiy den bolshinstvo naroda budet ritualno neochishcheno iz-za kontakta s mertvym i prazdnichnuyu zhertvu ne prinesut? I Gemara privodit drugoe obosnovanie:

umer glava naroda,

and all Israel were obligated to attend to his burial and thereby became ritually impure.

My sprosili po etomu povodu:

umer glava naroda —

kogda?

If we say that he died

glava naroda

trinadtsatogo chisla,

on the day when everyone was occupied with purifying their vessels for the following day, and the majority of the public became impure on that day—

zachem togda voobsche pogruzhat nozh v vodu?

This question applies both to the owners, for there would be no reason for them to immerse it, since they were destined to render it impure, and to the person who found it, for there would be no reason for him to keep it pure for the slaughter of his חגיגה offering on the Festival, since he was destined to render it impure [for the Paschal offering he did not need to keep it pure, because impurity is permitted for the public].

Rather, that the nasi died

glava naroda

on the fourteenth,

a vchera, trinadtsatogo chisla, vse pogruzili svoi predmety v vodu dlya pasKhalnoy zhertvy i vmeste s ney prinosimoy prazdnichnoy zhertvy.

V takom sluchae vozniknet vopros:

chem otlichaetsya nozh, kotoryy pogruzhayut v vodu,

trinadtsatogo chisla, poskolku on nuzhen dlya pasKhalnoy zhertvy,

ot toporika, kotoryy ne pogruzhayut v vodu?

Ved toporik nuzhen, chtoby razrubat kosty prazdnichnoy zhertvy, prinosimoy vmeste s pasKhalnoy zhertvoy!?

Ved trinadtsatogo chisla, kogda vse ochishchayut svoi predmety dlya sleduyushchego dnya, on ne znaet, chto glava naroda umret na sleduyushchiy den, i ne predpolagaet, chto na sleduyushchiy den prazdnichnuyu zhertvu prinosit ne budut!?

Gemara privodit eshche odno obosnovanie:

Eto nuzhno v sluchae, esli

glava

naroda byl pri smerti trinadtsatogo chisla.

Lyudi somnevalis, umret li on na sleduyushchiy den i budet li pasKhalnaya zhertva prinesena v sostoyanii ritualnoy neochishchennosti, tak chto vmeste s ney prazdnichnuyu zhertvu ne prinesut; poetomu oni pogruzhali v vodu tolko nozh, no ne toporik.

V sluchae nozha est odno somnenie

u lyudey: umret li glava naroda; esli da, to on navernyaka

pogruzit ego v vodu

v gornitse trinadtsatogo chisla, tak kak vozmozhno, chto glava naroda ne umret, i togda nuzhen budet ritualno chistyy nozh, chtoby zakolat im pasKHalnuyu zhertvu.

No

v sluchae toporika est dva

raznykh

somneniya

[kotorye budut obyasneny nizhe] u ego vladeltsa o tom, nuzhno li sokhranyat ego v chistote, esli na sleduyushchiy den on okazhetsya nuzhen, —

ego ne pogruzhayut v vodu

ego vladeltsy.

Dva somneniya takovy:

a. Vozmozhno, na sleduyushchiy den glava naroda umret, i pasKhalnuyu zhertvu prinesut v sostoyanii ritualnoy neochishchennosti; togda prazdnichnuyu zhertvu ne prinesut. Poskolku vmeste s pasKhalnoy zhertvoy, prinesennoy v sostoyanii ritualnoy neochishchennosti, prazdnichnuyu zhertvu ne prinosyat, net neobkhodimosti v ritualnoy chistote toporika, tak kak na sleduyushchiy den im ne prishlos by razrubat kosty prazdnichnoy zhertvy.

b. Vozmozhno, pasKhalnoy zhertvy budet dostatochno dlya vsekh, tak chto prinosit prazdnichnuyu zhertvu ne pridetsya i toporik ne ponadobitsya.

We learned in our Mishna that the חגיגה offering of the fourteenth does not override Shabbat. Even Ben Teima, who compares the laws of this חגיגה offering to those of the Paschal offering in many respects, agrees with this ruling.

The Gemara now cites a beraita containing the view of Yehuda ben Dorta'i, who holds that the חגיגה offering of the fourteenth does override Shabbat!

It was taught: Yehuda ben Dorta'i separated

from the Sages and dissociated himself from them because he disagreed with their statement, “The חגיגה offering of the fourteenth does not override Shabbat,” and held that it does override Shabbat.

When Passover eve fell on Shabbat, when according to his opinion they were obligated to bring the חגיגה offering of the fourteenth, he wished to prevent himself from neglecting the mitzva of the חגיגה offering [according to his opinion], and he left his place near the Temple,

he and Dorta'i his son.

On ushel i poselilsya

vdaleke,

na yuge,

chtoby ne byt obyazannym voskhodit v Yerushalayim na prazdnik i ne byt obyazannym prinosit pasKhalnuyu i prazdnichnuyu zhertvy.

Skazal

Yehuda ben Dortaya:

«Esli pridet Eliyahu i skazhet narodu Izrailya: “Pochemu vy ne prinesli prazdnichnuyu zhertvu v Shabat?” —

kakoy

otvet

oni emu dadut?!»

«Ya udivlyayus dvum velikim mudretsam pokoleniya, Shemaya i Avtalionu: oni byli velikimi mudretsami i velikimi tolkovatelyami, no ne skazali narodu Izrailya: “Prazdnichnaya zhertva otmenyaet Shabat”.»

Rav skazal: “Kakova prichina mneniya Bena Dortayi?”

Tak kak napisano

[Dvarim, 16]

«I zakolesh pasKhalnuyu zhertvu dlya Gospoda, Boga tvoego,

iz melkiy skota i krupnogo skota».

Ved pasKhalnuyu zhertvu prinosyat tolko iz ovets i koz,

i chto togda oznachayut slova «krupnogo skota»?

No: “melkiy skot” —

eto pasKhalnaya zhertva, “krupnyy skot” —

eto prazdnichnaya zhertva,

prinosimaya vmeste s ney.

I Vsevyshniy skazal

«I zakolesh pasKhalnuyu zhertvu»,

tak kak Tora tozhe nazvala prazdnichnuyu zhertvu, prinosimuyu vmeste s pasKhalnoy, «pasKhalnoy zhertvoy»; poetomu ona otmenyaet Shabat, kak i pasKhalnaya zhertva.

Skazal

Rav

Rav Ashi

was challenging Rav’s exposition, in which he explained the verse in accordance with the view of Yehuda ben Dorta'i: Is it the case that

we should adopt the reasoning of the separatists

ot mudretsov, —

let us rise and separate ourselves

!?

No, stikh

dany dlya togo, chtoby vyvesti zakon Rava Nakhmana.

For Rav Naḥman said in the name of Rabba bar Avuha: From where is it derived that the “surplus of the Paschal offering”

[a Paschal offering that was not sacrificed at its proper time, or money designated for purchasing a Paschal offering with which an offering was purchased, leaving surplus money]

prinosyat kak zhertvu mira?

Kak skazano:

«I zakolesh pasKhalnuyu zhertvu dlya Gospoda, Boga tvoego, iz melkiy skota i krupnogo skota».

Does a Paschal offering come from cattle?

Ved pasKhalnuyu zhertvu prinosyat tolko iz ovets i koz.

No: “ostatok pasKhalnoy zhertvy” —

da budet

zhertvoy mira, kotoraya

byvaet iz melkiy i krupnogo skota.

My sprosili po etomu povodu:

a u mudretsov kakova prichina, pochemu ne otmenyaet

prazdnichnaya zhertva, prinosimaya vmeste s pasKhalnoy, i prazdnichnaya zhertva pyatnadtsatogo chisla

Shabat?

Ved eto nesomnenno obshchestvennaya zhertva?!

After all, it is brought by an assembly, like the Paschal offering, and its time is fixed.

Rabi Ila skazal ot imeni Rabi Yehudy ben Sifra: stikh govorit

o prazdnichnoy zhertve pyatnadtsatogo chisla v prazdnik Sukot: [Vayikra, 23]

«I prazdnuyte ego kak prazdnik Gospoda sem dney v godu».

No razve

sem

dney tolko prinosyat prazdnichnuyu zhertvu? Ved

vosem

dney

imeyutsya,

esli schitat vosmoy den, Shemini Atseret, v kotoryy takzhe prinosyat prazdnichnuyu zhertvu!

No ottuda sleduet, chto prazdnichnaya zhertva ne otmenyaet Shabat,

poetomu Shabat nuzhno isklyuchit iz scheta vosmi dney. Poluchaetsya, chto ostayutsya tolko sem dney.

And this verse proves that there is no חגיגה offering that overrides Shabbat; the חגיגה offering of the fourteenth is also excluded by it.

Kogda Rabin priekhal

iz Erets-Israel v Bavel,

on skazal:

Tak

ya skazal

to est sprosil

pered moimi uchitelyami:

Kak mozhet Tora govorit: «I prazdnuyte ego kak prazdnik Gospoda sem dney»?

Ved

inogda poluchaetsya tolko shest

dney dlya prineseniya prazdnichnoy zhertvy.

For example, when the first day of the Festival

Sukot

prikhoditsya na Shabat,

tak chto i Shemini Atseret prikhoditsya na Shabat.

Abaye skazal: “Avin, Neuteshchiy

[the name of a man who buried his sons]

dolzhen byl skazat

: vot kto dolzhen byl skazat

takoe slovo,

takoy neudachnyy vopros. Rabinu ne podobalo ego zadavat.

Tak kak prostoy smysl stikha takov:

vosem —

vovse ne mozhet poluchit'sya. Sem —

byvayut v bolshinstve let.

Ulla skazal ot imeni Rabi Elazara: esli zhertvy mira zakoloty nakanune prazdnichnogo dnya,

chelovek ne ispolnyaet imi ni obyazannost radovat'sya, ni obyazannost prinosit prazdnichnuyu zhertvu.