Niddah 38a — the Talmud in English

The same law applies: it is pure

even

on

days fit for counting the days that invalidate a zava! This means: if she began seeing blood of labor-pain during the days of ziva, and continued seeing it on the following days, this seeing is forever pure, because the days following the seven days after the days of ziva are also days belonging to ziva, since if she sees on the seventh day of her counting, she invalidates the entire count of the days and begins a new count of seven clean days, and the cycle repeats. It follows that blood of labor-pain is impure only if she began seeing it during her nida days!

since if she sees blood on the seventh day of her count, she invalidates the entire count of the days and begins a new count of seven clean days, and this cycle repeats. It follows that blood of labor pains is impure only if she began to see it during her days of menstruation!

The Gemara raises an objection to Levi from our Mishna:

We learned: How long is her labor-pain? Rabbi Meir says: forty or fifty days!

The Gemara understood that she is pure both during nida periods and during ziva periods.

Granted, according to Rav,

who said that blood of labor-pain is pure even on days fit for counting a zava, and not only during the eleven days of ziva themselves,

you can find

that she is pure even if she saw blood continuously for fifty days before her childbirth, both during nida days and during ziva days, and

in accordance with Rav Adda bar Ahava,

who explained his words and said that blood of labor-pain is pure even on days fit for counting the days that invalidate a zava. This is when she began seeing during the days of ziva and continued seeing blood of labor-pain for fifty days without a respite between them.

But according to Levi, it is difficult:

how can there be fifty days during which she is pure? After all, when the eleven days of ziva end, the seven days of nida begin, during which blood of labor-pain is impure?

Levi can say to you—

does it teach, “pure throughout all of them,”

whose meaning would be on every one of the fifty days? The intention of the tanna is only to say that even if she anticipated the seeing of blood of labor-pain by fifty days, it is pure, but on condition that it have the law of blood of labor-pain: if she saw

during nida days—

she is

a nida,

and only one who sees

during ziva days is

—

pure!

There is another version: they say

the positions of Rav and Levi differently:

Rabbi Levi said: The fetus does not purify

the blood of its mother’s labor-pain

except

on

days on which she is fit to be a major zava!

The practical difference is: (a) only if she saw during labor-pain for three consecutive days within the eleven days is she pure; but if she saw blood of labor-pain for only one or two days, she is obligated to observe one day corresponding to one day, because Scripture purified only the blood of labor-pain of a major zava, who sees for three consecutive days.

(b) If she continued seeing blood of labor-pain beyond the eleventh day of ziva, it is impure blood, despite its continuation from the days of ziva, because only blood of labor-pain that she sees during the time in which she becomes a major zava is pure!

What is the reason?—

“And when a woman has a discharge,

her discharge of blood for many days,” it is written,

and this refers specifically to a major zava, and only in this manner did they expound “her blood”—because of herself and not because of a fetus!

Abba Shaul said in the name of Rav: Even

if she saw on

days on which she is fit to become a minor zava,

the blood of labor-pain is pure during them!

What is the reason?—

“Days” and “all days” are written there,

in the section of a zava. Therefore, they learn from them both regarding a major zava and regarding a minor zava. And when blood seen without labor-pain was excluded from impurity in that section, it is pure whether she saw during the days of a major zava or whether she saw during the days of a minor zava.

The Gemara raises an objection from our Mishna:

We learned: How long is her labor-pain—

Rabbi Meir says even forty or fifty days! This is difficult for both of them,

both for Rav and for Rabbi Levi! For according to this version, it follows that both agree that if she saw blood of labor-pain within the eleven days of her ziva, she is pure, whereas the Mishna explains that even if she continues seeing after the days of ziva for fifty days, she is pure?

The Gemara answers:

Does it teach, “pure throughout all of them,”

whose meaning is throughout all fifty days, even if she sees continuously? Rather, this is how Rabbi Meir’s words are to be explained:

She experienced labor-pain during her nida days—

a nida! During her ziva days—

pure!

Even if these days of her ziva were fifty days before the childbirth.

It was taught in a beraita: Rabbi Meir would say—

There is a woman who experiences labor-pain,

who sees blood for

one hundred and fifty days, and ziva does not accrue during them—

she does not become a zava during these days, even though not all the seeings were during labor-pain.

How so?—

She saw blood for

two

days

outside the time of

her nida, namely, on the last two days of the eleven days of ziva, and she did not thereby become a zava, because she saw for only two days during her ziva days.

And

she continued seeing for

seven

days of

nida, and seeing during the nida days does not join the seeing during the ziva days to make her a zava.

and a sighting during the days of menstruation does not combine with a sighting during the days of ziva to make her a zava.

And

she saw further for

two

first days

of the period after the nida,

which are the beginning of the ziva days after the nida days. It follows that eleven consecutive days passed over her during which she saw blood, and she still did not become a zava!

And on the twelfth day [during which she continued seeing], the pain of childbirth began, and continued for fifty days until the childbirth; she did not become a zava during them, because the Torah purified blood of labor-pain from ziva.

And

they are

the fifty days that the fetus purifies,

and they join the first eleven days, so that it follows that she saw for sixty-one days and did not become a zava!

And

let us add to them another

eighty for a female,

for a woman who gives birth to a female has eighty days of childbirth and purity, during which she does not become a zava. It follows that she sees for one hundred forty-one days and still does not become a zava!

And

there is still a possibility of adding to them

seven

days of

nida

if she sees again after the days of purity,

and two of the period after the nida,

during which she still does not become a zava. It follows that one hundred fifty days passed over her during which she saw blood [of which only fifty were during labor-pain of childbirth], and nevertheless she did not become a zava!

The Sages said to him,

to Rabbi Meir:

If so, there is a woman who experiences labor-pain all her days, and ziva never accrues during them!

For if she conceives during the eighty days for a female, and after counting those one hundred fifty days she again sees for fifty days during labor-pain of childbirth, and becomes pure for another eighty days, it follows that she will never become a zava!

He said to them,

Rabbi Meir to the Sages:

What is your view,

how is it possible that she should see forever without becoming a zava?—

Because of miscarriages.

For if her pregnancy lasted only fifty days and immediately afterward she has eighty days of childbirth purity, it necessarily concerns a miscarriage, which was born before its months were completed. In such a case I render her impure, because my view is that

there is no labor-pain for miscarriages,

but only blood of labor-pain from the childbirth of a viable fetus is pure.

The Sages taught: There is a woman who sees

without labor-pain of childbirth for

one hundred days—

and ziva does not accrue during them! How so?—

She saw

two

days

outside the

time of her nida, but at the end of the ziva days,

and seven

days of

nida, and two

days at the beginning of the eleven days

of

the ziva days that

are after the nida, and eighty for a female, and seven nida

days after them,

and two of the period after the nida.

What does it come to teach us?!

To exclude the view of the one who says, “It is impossible for the opening of the womb to occur without blood,”

for according to his words, if she saw for two days after the nida and gave birth on the third day, she necessarily saw blood also on the third day before the childbirth, at the time of the opening of the womb. It follows that she saw for three days during the ziva days, and she gives birth as a zava.

It comes to teach us that it is possible for the opening of the womb to occur without blood,

and therefore, if she did not see on the third day before the childbirth and gave birth, she does not become a zava.

We learned in the Mishna:

Rabbi Judah says

she has only the new period!

It was taught in a beraita: Rabbi Judah said in the name of Rabbi Tarfon—

She has only the new period, and this can be lenient or stringent! How so? She experienced labor-pain for two

days

at the end of the eighth month, and one at the beginning of the ninth, and even if she gave birth at the beginning of the ninth—

she is one who gives birth as a zava.

The reason is that since the first two days, which were before the ninth month, are considered ziva days, the third day after them is also continued from them and is judged as though it had been in the eighth month, and she is rendered impure as a zava.

But if she had difficulty one day at the end of the eighth [month] and two at the beginning of the ninth,

and the rest of the days her difficulty abated ,

and even if she gave birth at the end of the ninth,

and she did not see blood on the days when her difficulty had abated—

this is not a woman who gives birth in a state of zavah.

Rav Adda bar Ahava said: Learn from this that Rabbi Yehuda holds that the shifura—

the sounding of the shofar at the time of sanctifying the new month on the New Moon—

is determinative!

That is, the ninth month of her pregnancy is the month in which the blood is considered blood of difficulty of birth, even if the difficulty was only at the beginning of the month; and the abatement of the difficulty until the birth does not cause what she saw previously to become impure, because throughout the entire month she has difficulty on account of the fetus.

The Gemara raises an objection:

Is that so,

how did you say that the entire ninth month is the time of birth?

But Shmuel said: A woman conceives and gives birth only

at the end of the ninth month,

after two hundred and seventy-one days

from her intercourse [that is, nine months of thirty days, which are two hundred and seventy days. And on the following day, on the first day of the tenth month of her pregnancy, she gives birth]

or

at the latest,

after two hundred and seventy-two days, or after two hundred and seventy-three,

because it is possible that the seed was absorbed one or two days after the intercourse, but before then it is not the time of birth.

The Gemara answers:

He,

Shmuel,

said—

held—

like the early pious ones,

who held that she does not give birth before her time; but Rabbi Yehuda held that she gives birth throughout the entire ninth month.