Niddah 38a (לח.) — the Talmud in English

The same law applies: she becomes pure

even

on

days suitable for counting the days that invalidate the count of a zava! In other words: if she began to see blood of labor pains during the days of ziva and continued to see it on the following days, this sighting remains pure forever, because the days following the seven days after the days of ziva are also days belonging to the period of ziva,

since if she sees blood on the seventh day of her count, she invalidates the entire count of the days and begins a new count of seven clean days, and this cycle repeats. It follows that blood of labor pains is impure only if she began to see it during her days of menstruation!

The Gemara challenges Levi from our Mishna:

We learned: How long is her period of labor pains? Rabbi Meir says: Forty or fifty days!

The Gemara understood this to mean that she is pure both during days of menstruation and during days of ziva.

Granted, according to Rav,

who said that blood of labor pains is pure even on days suitable for counting for a zava, and not only during the eleven actual days of ziva,

you can find

a case in which she is pure even if she saw blood continuously for fifty days before giving birth, both during days of menstruation and during days of ziva,

in accordance with Rav Adda bar Ahava,

who explained Rav’s statement and said that blood of labor pains is pure even on days suitable for counting the days that invalidate the count of a zava. This is the case when she began to see blood during the days of ziva and continued to see blood of labor pains for fifty days without a cessation between them.

But according to Levi, it is difficult:

How can there be fifty days during which she remains pure? Once the eleven days of ziva end, the seven days of menstruation begin, during which blood of labor pains is impure.

Levi could say to you:

Does it teach, “she is pure during all of them,”

which would mean on every one of the fifty days? The tanna intended only to say that even if she began seeing blood of labor pains as early as fifty days before the birth, it is pure—but on condition that it have the status appropriate to blood of labor pains: if she saw

during the days of menstruation,

she is

a menstruant,

and only one who sees

during the days of ziva

—

is pure!

Others state

the positions of Rav and Levi differently:

Rabbi Levi said: The fetus renders its mother’s blood pure

from the blood of labor pains

only

on

days on which she is fit to become a major zava!

The practical difference is as follows: First, she becomes pure only if she saw blood accompanied by labor pains for three consecutive days within the eleven days; but if she saw blood of labor pains for only one or two days, she is obligated to observe one clean day corresponding to each day of bleeding, because Scripture rendered pure only the blood of labor pains of a major zava, who sees blood for three consecutive days.

Second, if she continued to see blood of labor pains beyond the eleventh day of ziva, that blood is impure, despite the fact that the sighting began during the days of ziva, because only blood of labor pains seen during the period in which she becomes a major zava is pure!

What is the reason? “And if a woman have a flow,

her flow

of blood many days,” is written,

and this refers specifically to a major zava. Only in this context did they expound “her blood” to mean blood caused by her own body, and not by the fetus!

Abba Shaul said in the name of Rav: Even if

she saw blood during

days on which she is fit to become a minor zava,

the blood of labor pains is pure during them!

What is the reason?

“Days” and “all the days” are written there,

[in the passage concerning a zava]. Therefore, these verses are expounded with regard both to a major zava and to a minor zava. Since, in that passage, blood seen without labor pains was excluded from impurity, it is pure whether she saw it during the days of a major zava or during the days of a minor zava.

The Gemara challenges this from our Mishna:

We learned: How long is her period of labor pains—

Rabbi Meir says: Even forty or fifty days! This is difficult for both of them,

both for Rav and for Rabbi Levi. For according to this formulation, they both agree that if she saw blood of labor pains within her eleven days of ziva, she is pure, whereas the Mishna indicates that even if she continues to see blood after the days of ziva for fifty days, she is pure.

The Gemara answers:

Does it teach, “she is pure during all of them,”

which would mean throughout all fifty days, even if she sees continuously? Rather, this is how Rabbi Meir’s statement is to be explained:

If she experienced labor pains during her days of menstruation,

she is a menstruant; during her days of ziva,

she is pure!

Even if these days of ziva were fifty days before the birth.

It was taught in a beraita: Rabbi Meir would say:

There is a woman who experiences labor pains

while seeing blood for

one hundred and fifty days, and no ziva accrues during them—

she does not become a zava throughout these days, even though not all of the sightings were accompanied by labor pains.

How so?

She saw blood for

two

days

outside the time

of her menstruation—that is, on the final two days of the eleven days of ziva—but she did not thereby become a zava, since she saw blood for only two days during her days of ziva.

And

she continued to see blood for

seven

days of

menstruation,

and a sighting during the days of menstruation does not combine with a sighting during the days of ziva to make her a zava.

And

she saw blood for another

two

initial days

after menstruation,

which are the beginning of the days of ziva following the days of menstruation. Thus, eleven consecutive days passed during which she saw blood, and she still did not become a zava!

On the twelfth day [during which she continued to see blood], the pains of childbirth began, and they continued for fifty days until the birth. She did not become a zava during them, because the Torah rendered blood of labor pains pure from the laws of ziva.

And

these are

the fifty days that the fetus renders pure,

and they combine with the initial eleven days. Thus, she saw blood for sixty-one days without becoming a zava!

And

if we add to them another

eighty days for a female child,

during which a woman who gives birth to a female has eighty days of childbirth and purity, during which she does not become a zava, it follows that she sees blood for one hundred forty-one days and still does not become a zava!

And

it is still possible to add

seven

days of

menstruation

if she again sees blood after the days of purity,

and two days after menstruation,

during which she has not yet become a zava. Thus, one hundred fifty days have passed during which she saw blood [of which only fifty were blood of labor pains preceding childbirth], and nevertheless she did not become a zava!

The Sages said to him,

to Rabbi Meir:

If so, there is a woman who experiences labor pains all her days, and no ziva accrues during them!

For if she becomes pregnant during the eighty days for a female child, and after counting those one hundred fifty days she again sees blood of labor pains for fifty days and then has another eighty days of purity, it follows that she will never become a zava!

He said to them,

Rabbi Meir said to the Sages:

What is your view,

how is it possible for her to see blood forever without becoming a zava? It is

because of miscarriages.

For if her pregnancy lasts only fifty days and she immediately thereafter has eighty days of purity following childbirth, it must be referring to a miscarriage, born before the completion of its months. In such a case I render her impure, because my view is that

there are no labor pains for miscarriages;

only blood of labor pains accompanying the birth of a viable fetus is pure.

The Sages taught: There is a woman who sees blood

without labor pains preceding childbirth for

one hundred days—

and no ziva accrues during them! How so?

She saw

two

days

outside the time

of her menstruation, but at the end of the days of ziva,

and seven

days of

menstruation, and two

days at the beginning of the eleven days

of

the days of ziva

following menstruation, and eighty days for a female child, and seven days of menstruation

after them,

and two days after menstruation.

What does this teach us?!

It excludes the view of the one who says, “It is impossible for the opening of the womb to occur without blood,”

because according to him, if she saw blood for the two days following menstruation and gave birth on the third day, she necessarily saw blood on the third day as well, before the birth, at the time the womb opened. It would follow that she saw blood for three days during the days of ziva, and she gives birth as a zava.

It teaches us that it is possible for the opening of the womb to occur without blood,

and therefore, if she did not see blood on the third day before giving birth and then gave birth, she does not become a zava.

We learned in the Mishna:

Rabbi Yehuda says:

She is given only the new period of impurity!

It was taught in a beraita: Rabbi Yehuda said in the name of Rabbi Tarfon:

She is given only the new period of impurity, and this can result in leniency or stringency. How so? If she experienced labor pains for two

days

at the end of the eighth month, and one at the beginning of the ninth, and even if she gave birth at the beginning of the ninth,

she is one who gives birth as a zava.

The reason is that since the first two days, which preceded the ninth month, are considered days of ziva, the third day is also extended after them and is treated as though it were in the eighth month, and she becomes impure as a zava.

But if she experienced labor pains for one day at the end of the eighth month and for two days at the beginning of the ninth,

and her pains subsided for the rest of the days ,

and even if she gave birth at the end of the ninth month,

and she did not see blood during the days when her pains had subsided—

this is not a woman who gives birth in a state of zavah.

Rav Adda bar Ahava said: Infer from this that Rabbi Yehuda holds that the shofar

the sounding of the shofar at the sanctification of the new month on Rosh Chodesh

determines.

That is, the ninth month of her pregnancy is the month during which the blood is considered blood accompanying the pains of childbirth. Even if the pains occurred only at the beginning of the month, the fact that her pains subsided until the birth does not render impure what she saw previously, because throughout the entire month she experiences pain on account of the fetus.

The Gemara raises an objection:

Is that so?

How can you say that the entire ninth month is the time of birth?

But Shmuel said: A woman conceives and gives birth only

at the end of the ninth month,

after two hundred seventy-one days

from the time of intercourse [that is, nine months of thirty days, which total two hundred seventy days; and on the following day, the first day of the tenth month of her pregnancy, she gives birth]

or

at the latest,

after two hundred seventy-two days, or after two hundred seventy-three,

because it is possible that the semen was absorbed one or two days after intercourse, but before that it is not the time of birth.

The Gemara answers:

He,

Shmuel,

spoke—

he held—

in accordance with the practice of the early pious ones,

who held that a woman does not give birth before her due time. But Rabbi Yehuda held that she gives birth at any time during the ninth month.