Moed Katan 10a (י.) — the Talmud in English

We learned in the Mishna:

A layman

sews in his usual manner.

And we raised a question about it:

What are the circumstances of a layman

who is not considered a craftsman and may sew in his usual manner?

The school of Rabbi Yannai said: Every

person

who cannot

insert the needle into the fabric many times and then draw it through and

remove

it

the full length of a needle,

so that many stitches are found

at once,

as craftsmen do.

One who is not proficient in this is not considered a craftsman.

Rabbi Yosei bar Ḥanina said:

A layman is considered

any

person

who cannot align

the

imra,

the thickness of the garment that

is in the cuff

at the edge of

his robe,

at the collar and sleeve; and expertise is required to make it, so that it will not be wide in one place and narrow in another. Only one proficient in this is considered a craftsman.

We learned in the Mishna:

And a craftsman makes irregular stitches.

And we raised a question about it:

What does “makes irregular stitches” mean

which is an expression related to “dog”?

Rabbi Yoḥanan said: He spaces them out.

He does not sew in a straight line; rather, he spreads out the stitches, and the insertions of the needle resemble the teeth of a dog, which are distant from one another.

Rabba bar Shmuel said:

The teeth of a female dog. He does not sew in the usual manner, inserting the needle close to the preceding stitch; rather, he inserts it once above and once below, resembling the teeth of a dog, in that one tooth is higher than the other.

We learned in the Mishna:

And one may weave the beds.

Rabbi Yosei says: One may stretch them.

And we raised a question about it:

What is the meaning of “weave,” and what is the meaning of “stretch”?

When Rav Dimi arrived, he said: Rav Ḥiyya bar Abba and Rav Asi disagreed about this.

And both of them

said this

in the name of Ḥizkiyya and Rabbi Yoḥanan.

One said, “

weave”

means weaving a bed made of ropes

warp and woof. .

And “

stretch”

means that one stretches only the ropes of

the warp

along its length,

without

weaving the threads of

the woof,

across its width.

And one said, “weave”

means that one stretches only the threads of

the warp without

weaving the threads of

the woof

between them [which is what the opposing opinion explained regarding “stretch”].

And

if

“stretch”

means

that if the

bed’s fabric, which was woven long ago, was loose and the ropes were slack,

he stretches it

so that it will be firm and comfortable for sitting.

And we challenge this:

Is that so? But Rav Taḥlifa bar Shaul taught: And they agree

the first tanna [Rabbi Meir] and Rabbi Yosei

that one may not twist

that is, one may not braid

ropes initially!

Thus, Rav Taḥlifa’s entire innovation depends on their disagreement.

Granted, according to the one who says “

weave”

means weaving the threads of

warp and woof, and “stretch”

means stretching the thread of

the warp without

weaving the threads of

the woof, this is what it teaches,

and there is indeed an innovation in the statement of

Rav Taḥlifa bar Shaul:

they disagree only with regard to weaving, whether it is permitted to weave the threads of the woof among the threads of the warp or whether it is prohibited.

And they agree

Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yosei

that they do not

twist ropes initially.

But according to the one who says

that “

weave”

means stretching only the threads of

the warp

alone,

without

weaving the threads of

the woof,

and “

stretch”

means

that if it was slack, he stretches it,

and according to everyone weaving warp and woof is prohibited, this is difficult:

Why did Rav Taḥlifa need to teach his innovation that they do not disagree about twisting ropes, and that according to everyone it is prohibited?

For

now,

even weaving

warp and woof you have said

that according to everyone

it is not

permitted during the festival; they disagree only about stretching the warp threads without the woof.

Twisting

ropes initially—

is it necessary to state this!?

Is there any need to say that it is prohibited according to everyone!?

And we conclude:

This is difficult!

Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said to Rav Ḥiyya bar

Avin:

Is it possible that

there is one who says

that “

weave”

means stretching the threads of

the warp, without

passing the threads of

the woof

between them?

But did we not learn explicitly

that in a woven bed one must weave both warp and woof?

For this is what we learned in tractate Kelim, concerning a bed’s susceptibility to ritual impurity:

Rabbi Meir says: A bed

becomes susceptible to impurity only

once one has woven three houses in it,

the houses of the heddles—that is, the warp threads have already been stretched lengthwise, and one weaves three woof threads among them.

This proves that a bed is considered woven only after both warp and woof have been woven.

Because of these two difficulties, we reject the statement of the one who says that “weave” means warp without woof, and that “stretch” means only stretching what has become slack.

But when Ravin arrived

from Eretz Yisrael,

he said: With regard to “weave”,

everyone agrees,

and both Rav Ḥiyya and Rav Asi concede

that it

means weaving

warp and woof.

Rather, they disagree about “stretch.”

One master holds that “stretch”

means

warp without woof.

And the other holds that if it was slack, he stretches it [and no one holding this opinion disagrees with regard to “weave,” as above].

Meytivi

from what we learned concerning the dispute in the Mishna about weaving a bed on the intermediate days of a festival:

One may weave the bed, and needless to say one may stretch it; this is the statement of Rabbi Meir.

Rabbi Yosei says: One may stretch it, but one may not weave it.

And some say: One may not stretch at all.

Granted, according to the one who says

[Rav Dimi according to one interpretation]

“stretch”

means

warp without woof; this is what they came

that is, they came

“

to disagree,”

and said that one may not stretch at all, even warp without woof, which this opinion holds Rabbi Yosei permitted.

But according to the one who says

that what Rabbi Yosei permitted by “stretch” means only

that if it was slack, he stretches it,

the difficulty is: Is it possible that

according to the “some say,” he may not even stretch it

on the intermediate days of a festival? There is no labor here at all, and without stretching the fabric it is impossible to sit on the bed.

And we answer:

Yes,

the “some say” hold that

since it is possible to fill it with rags,

with worn garments, until the depression caused by the slack fabric is filled, after which one can spread cushions and mattresses over it and sit on them,

we do not exert ourselves

even to stretch the fabric, since this is unnecessary exertion.

Mishna:

One may set up

that is, make

an oven,

which has a hollow space in it, where pots are placed, and its heat is retained inside because its opening is narrow.

And

one may likewise set up

stoves,

whose opening is wider and which are made like a pot.

And

one may likewise set up

millstones.

And one may make them initially

during the festival,

as is explained in the Gemara.

Rabbi Yehuda says: One may not refurbish millstones initially.

The Gemara will explain what “refurbish” means.

Gemara:

What is the meaning of “refurbish”?

Rav Yehuda said: Chiseling a millstone.

If it has become smooth from extensive use and the wheat does not break apart, he makes grooves in it so that it will become rough and the wheat will break apart in the mill. This is prohibited initially on the intermediate days of a festival.

Rav Yeḥiel said: Making the eye.

He wishes to make the hole made in the center of the millstone, where the grain is placed for grinding.

Meitiv'i: One may set up an oven and a stove

during the festival, provided that one does not complete their work,

since one may make the body of the oven but may not attach it to the ground,

the statement of Rabbi Eliezer.

And the Sages say: one may even complete the work,

since these are implements for preparing food.

Rabbi Yehuda says in the name

of Rabbi Eliezer:

one may set up the

new

millstone, and groove the

old one.

And some say

that according to Rabbi Eliezer,

one may not groove

the millstone

at all.

In any event, it is clear from the beraita that grooving applies to an old millstone, which presents a difficulty for Rabbi Yihiel.

Granted, according to the one who says that grooving

means

chiseling a millstone, this is why it can be found in the case of an old one,

which has become worn and cannot grind without grooves.

But according to the one who says

that grooving means making

an eye

in a millstone

old—

an eye

additional

why is it needed!?

It already had one originally, since without an eye it is impossible to grind with it.

And we answer:

for example, he wishes to enlarge

the eye and make it wider

by a little more.

Rav Huna heard a certain man chiseling a millstone

old

on the intermediate days of the festival. He said: Who is this,

who is chiseling on the intermediate days of the festival [since with regard to every millstone it is forbidden, even an old one]!?

Let his

body be profaned,

itself,

since

he is profaning the intermediate days of the festival!

This proves that Rav Huna

held in accordance with the some who say

in the beraita that one may not chisel at all.

Rav Hama taught: One may chisel millstones during the festival .

In the name of Rabbi Meir they said: Even a horse that he rides, or a donkey that he rides, it is permitted to cut

its

hooves

of them

on the intermediate days of the festival

so that they will not cause them pain and prevent them from walking .