Moed Katan 10a — the Talmud in English

We learned in the Mishna:

the ordinary person —

sews in his usual manner.

And we raised it:

What are the circumstances of an ordinary person,

one who is not considered a craftsman and may sew in his usual manner?

The school of Rabbi Yannai said: Every

one

who cannot

insert the needle into the fabric many times and afterward draw it and

remove

it

a needleful,

so that many stitches are found

at once

as craftsmen do.

One who is not skilled in this is not considered a craftsman.

Rabbi Yosei bar Ḥanina said:

An ordinary person is considered

every

one

who cannot align

the

seam,

the thickness of the garment that is

in the cuff

at the edge of

his robe,

at the collar and at the sleeve; and expertise is needed to make it, so that it will not be wide here and narrow there. And only one skilled in this is considered a craftsman.

We learned in the Mishna:

and the craftsman makes stitches like a dog’s teeth.

And we raised it:

What is “makes stitches like a dog’s teeth” [

which is an expression of “dog”]?

Rabbi Yoḥanan said: He spaces them out.

He does not sew straight, but spreads out the stitches, and the insertions of the needle resemble a dog’s teeth, which are distant from one another.

Rabba bar Shmuel said: The teeth of a female dog.

He does not sew ordinarily, inserting one stitch close to the next, but inserts one time above and one time below; and in this he resembles the teeth of a dog, in that one tooth is higher than the other.

We learned in the Mishna:

and they weave the beds.

Rabbi Yosei says: They stretch them.

And we raised it:

What is “they weave,” and what is “they stretch”?

When Rav Dimi came, he said: Rav Ḥiyya bar Abba and Rav Asi disputed this,

and both of them

said this

in the name of Ḥizkiya and Rabbi Yoḥanan.

One said, “

they weave”

means they weave a rope bed

warp and woof. And “

And “

they stretch”

means that they stretch in it only the ropes of

the warp

lengthwise,

without

weaving into it the threads of

the woof,

widthwise.

And one said, “they weave”

means that they stretch in it only the threads of

the warp without

weaving the threads of the

woof

among them [which is as the one who disagrees with him explained “they stretch”].

And

if

“they stretch”

means

that if it was loose,

the fabric of the bed, which was woven long ago, and the ropes are loose,

he stretches it

so that it will be firm and comfortable for sitting.

And we object:

Is that so? But Rav Taḥlifa bar Shaul taught: And they agree

the first tanna [Rabbi Meir] and Rabbi Yosei

that one does not twist,

that one does not braid

ropes initially!

But all of Rav Taḥlifa’s innovation depends upon their dispute.

Granted, according to the one who says “

they weave”

is the weaving of the threads of

warp and woof, and “they stretch”

is the stretching of the thread of

the warp without

weaving the threads of

the woof, this is what it teaches,

for there is indeed an innovation in the words of

Rav Taḥlifa bar Shaul,

that they disputed only regarding “they weave”: whether it is permitted to weave the threads of the woof among the threads of the warp or whether it is prohibited.

And they agree

Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yosei

that they do not

twist ropes initially.

But according to the one who says that “

that “

they weave”

is the stretching of the threads of

the warp

alone,

without

weaving the threads of

the woof, and “

and “

they stretch”

is

that if it was loose, he stretches it.

And according to everyone, weaving warp and woof is prohibited, this is difficult:

Why did Rav Taḥlifa need his innovation that they did not dispute regarding braiding ropes, and according to everyone it is prohibited?

But

now,

even weaving

warp and woof you have said

that according to everyone it is

not

permitted on the Festival, and they disputed only regarding stretching the threads of the warp without the woof.

Braiding

ropes initially —

is it necessary to say so!?

And is there a need to say that it is prohibited according to everyone!?

And we conclude:

It is difficult!

Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said to Rav Ḥiyya bar

Avin:

Is it possible that there is

one who says that “

that “

they weave”

is the stretching of the threads of

the warp, without

passing the threads of

the woof

among them?

But did we not explicitly learn

that one must weave into a woven bed both warp and woof!

For thus we learned in tractate Kelim, concerning the susceptibility of a bed to ritual impurity:

Rabbi Meir says: The bed

receives impurity only

once he has woven three houses in it,

the houses of the heddles; that is, the threads of the warp are already stretched lengthwise, and he weaves among them three threads of the woof.

And it is proven that a bed is considered woven only after weaving warp and woof.

And because of these two difficulties, we reject the words of the one who says that “they weave” means warp without woof, and “they stretch” means merely stretching the loose [bed].

Rather, when Ravin came

from the Land of Israel,

he said: Regarding “they weave” —

everyone does not dispute,

and both Rav Ḥiyya and Rav Asi agree

that

it means weaving

warp and woof.

Rather, they dispute regarding “they stretch.”

One master holds that “they stretch”

means

warp without woof.

And one master holds that if it was loose, he stretches it [and there is no one who says that this one also disputes concerning “they weave,” as above].

He objected

from that which we learned regarding the dispute of the Mishna concerning weaving a bed on the intermediate days of the Festival:

They weave the bed, and it is unnecessary to say that they stretch it, the words of Rabbi Meir.

Rabbi Yosei says: They stretch it, but they do not weave it.

And some say: They do not stretch at all.

Granted, according to the one who says [

Rav Dimi according to one approach]

“they stretch”

means

warp without woof, this is what it means: they came

that is, they came, “

some say”

to dispute,

and said that they do not stretch at all, even warp without woof, which Rabbi Yosei permitted according to this view.

But according to the one who says that the stretching which Rabbi Yosei permitted means only

that what Rabbi Yosei permitted by “stretch” means only

that if it was loose, he stretches it,

this is difficult: And according to

some say, may he not stretch it either on the intermediate days of the Festival!? But there is no labor here at all, and without stretching the fabric it is impossible to sit on the bed.

on the intermediate days of a festival? There is no labor here at all, and without stretching the fabric it is impossible to sit on the bed.

And we answer:

Yes,

the ones who say this hold that

since it is possible to fill it with garments,

with worn-out garments until the depression caused by the looseness of the fabric is filled, so that he can spread cushions and mattresses over it and sit on them,

we do not exert ourselves

even to stretch the fabric, which is unnecessary exertion.

Mishna:

They set up

make

an oven,

which has an interior cavity in which pots are placed, and its heat is retained within it because its opening is narrow.

And

they likewise set up

stoves,

whose opening is wider and which are made like a pot.

And

they likewise set up

millstones.

And they may make them initially

on the Festival,

as is explained in the Gemara.

Rabbi Yehuda says: One does not groove the millstones initially.

And the Gemara will explain what “groove” means.

Gemara:

What is “groove”?

Rav Yehuda said: He chips the millstone.

If it has been worn smooth from extensive use and the wheat does not break apart, he makes grooves in it so that it will be rough, and the wheat will break apart in the mill. Doing this initially is prohibited on the Festival.

Rav Yeḥiel said: The eye.

He wishes to make the hole made in the middle of the millstone, into which the grain is placed for grinding.

Meitivi: One may set up an oven and a stove

during the Festival, provided that he does not finish their work,

for he can make the body of the oven, but not attach it to the ground,

the words of Rabbi Eliezer.

And the Sages say: he may even finish it,

since they are implements of food preparation.

Rabbi Judah says in his name

of Rabbi Eliezer:

one may set up the

millstone

the new one, and one may dress

the old one.

And there are those who say

that according to Rabbi Eliezer

one may not dress

the millstone

at all.

In any event, it is explicit in the beraita that dressing applies to an old millstone, and this is difficult for Rabbi Yehiel.

Granted, according to the one who says that dressing

is

dressing the millstone, this is how you find it in the old one,

which has worn down and does not grind without grooves.

But according to the one who says

that dressing means making

bat eina

in a millstone

old —

bat eina

an additional one

why does it need it!?

It already had one at the outset, for without a bat eina it is impossible to grind with it.

And we answer:

for example, when he wishes to widen

the bat eina, and make it wider

by a little more.

Rav Huna heard a certain man dressing a millstone

old

on the intermediate days of the Festival. He said: Who is this,

who is this dressing on the intermediate days of the Festival [since with every millstone it is forbidden even with an old one]]!?

Let

it be profaned

his very body,

since

he is profaning the intermediate days of the Festival!

And it is proven that Rav Huna

held like the “there are those who say”

in the beraita, that one may not dress it at all.

Rav Hama expounded: One may dress millstones during the Festival .

In the name of Rabbi Meir they said: even with a horse upon which he rides, and a donkey upon which he rides, it is permitted to remove

the

hooves

of them

on the intermediate days of the Festival

so that they should not pain them and be unable to walk .