Menachot 28b — the Talmud in English

The Sages taught: All the vessels ![](pamud.bmp "

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that Moses made were fit for him, and fit

also

for later generations.

But

the trumpets

that Moses made,

were fit for him

only

and unfit

were they

for later generations!

And we raised it

What is the reason

that the trumpets were unfit for later generations?

If you say

it is

because the verse says

in the passage of the trumpets: “

Make for yourself

two trumpets,” and from this we derive:

for yourself, but not for later generations!

If that is so,

the verse stated in the passage of Ekev: “

And you shall make for yourself a wooden Ark,”

is

so too

that we should derive

for yourself, but not for later generations

—yet surely this Ark went out with them to war for later generations [according to Rashi, Deuteronomy 10:1]!?

Rather,

the word “for yourself” is expounded

according to the one who says

that in the first chapter of Yoma he expounds what is stated in the passage of the inauguration offering: “And he said to Aaron: Take for yourself a calf of cattle”

for yourself—from your own,

meaning that the inauguration offering had to belong to Aaron.

According to the one who says

—the second one in tractate Yoma who expounded the verse—that the Holy One, blessed be He, says,

as it were,

if the community could fulfill its obligation through the offering of an individual,

I desire yours more than theirs.

That is, as it were, the Holy One, blessed be He, would prefer that the inauguration offering come from Aaron, but in practice the offering comes from the community.

And just as the verse stated in the passage of the inauguration offerings is expounded according to both interpretations,

this “for yourself”

stated in the passage of the trumpets

also is needed

for those expositions. And from where do you derive that the trumpets made by Moses are disqualified for later generations?

The Gemara answers:

The case there is different,

in the passage of the trumpets,

for the verse says “for yourself”—“for yourself” twice: “

Make for yourself

two trumpets,” and “

And they shall be for you

for the summoning of the assembly.” From the fact that “for yourself” is stated twice, they derive that Moses’ trumpets are disqualified for later generations.

Rav Pappa son of Rav Hanan taught before Rav Yosef: The menorah came from a single piece

one piece,

and from gold. If he made it of silver, it is fit.

Of tin,

solder,

and of lead,

lead,

and of gisteron,

various metals,

Rabbi disqualifies, and Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda deems fit.

Of wood, of bone, or of glass, everyone agrees that it is unfit!

Even Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda disqualifies it.

Rav Yosef said to Rav Pappa:

What is your view,

that is, what is your reasoning, that according to Rabbi it is fit only when made of gold or silver, whereas according to Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda it is fit even when made of tin, lead, or gisteron?

He said to him,

Rav Pappa said to Rav Yosef:

Whether the Master

Rabbi

or the Master

Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda,

expound

the verses according to

general and particular

—both expound the verses through the measure of generalization, specification, and generalization, as will be explained below: “And you shall make a menorah” is a generalization; “pure gold” is a specification; “the menorah shall be made by hammering” is a generalization.

However, the Master

Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda

held: Just as the specification

gold

explicitly

is

of metal, so too everything

learned through the generalization, specification, and generalization must be

of metal.

Therefore all types of metal are fit.

And the Master,

Rabbi,

held: Just as the specification

gold

explicitly

is

a significant substance, so too everything

of metal learned through the generalization, specification, and generalization must be

a significant substance,

such as silver; but lead and tin, which are not significant metals, are not fit.

He said to him,

Rav Yosef said to Rav Pappa:

Remove

from your teaching the version in which you teach that Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda disqualifies one made of wood, and that Rabbi disqualifies one made of lead and one made of tin,

because of me,

because of my teaching, in which I teach that Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda deems one made of wood fit, and Rabbi likewise deems one made of lead and one made of tin fit.

For it was taught: If one made the service vessels of wood, Rabbi disqualifies, and Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda deems fit!

The Gemara explains:

With regard to what do they disagree,

Rabbi and Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda?

Rabbi expounds

the verses through the measure of

generalizations and specifications [

namely, generalization, specification, and generalization].

And Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda expounds

the verses through the measure of

multiplications and limitations.

And this is the meaning:

Rabbi expounds generalizations and specifications,

as it is stated in the passage of the menorah: “

And you shall make a menorah” is a generalization,

which implies from anything—“

pure gold” is a specification. “The menorah shall be made by hammering” returns and generalizes,

so that “shall be made” implies from any material.

And the manner of deriving through

generalization, specification, and generalization

is

You may infer only something resembling the specification: Just as the specification

is pure gold

explicitly

being

of metal, so too

everything learned from the generalization must resemble the specification,

being of metal!

Therefore Rabbi disqualifies one made of wood.

And Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda expounds multiplications and limitations: “

‘And you shall make a menorah’ multiplies. ‘Pure gold’ limits; ‘the menorah shall be made by hammering’ returns and multiplies!”

And since it is

a multiplication, limitation, and multiplication,

it multiplies everything,

and limits only one thing.

The Gemara explains:

And what does it multiply? Rabbi multiplies every substance,

even wood as well.

And what does it

limit?

It limits

a vessel

of earthenware,

which is inferior to all the vessels and is not fit even for a human king.

Rav Pappa said to Rav Yosef:

On the contrary, remove

your teaching because of mine,

for one can say that the dispute of the tannaim in the beraita concerning wood applies specifically to the other service vessels, but with regard to the menorah, in which gold is mentioned, everyone agrees that wood is not included. 9 .

Rav Yosef said to him:

It cannot enter your mind

that Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda disqualifies a wooden menorah.

For it was taught

explicitly concerning a menorah:

If he has no gold

for the menorah,

he brings one of silver, one of copper, one of iron, one of tin, or one of lead.

Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda deems even one made of wood fit!

And another beraita was taught: A person may not make

a house

of

the pattern

of

the Sanctuary

such that it is equal to the Sanctuary in all the measurements of length, width, and height 12 .

And likewise he may not make

a portico,

a structure having only three partitions, with its fourth side open,

corresponding to [

in its measurements] those of

the Hall 13 .

And likewise he may not make

a courtyard corresponding to [

in the measurements of] the

Temple Courtyard.

And he may not make

a table corresponding to

the form of the

table

that was in the Temple. And likewise he may not make

a menorah corresponding to

the form of a

menorah!

But he may make

a menorah

of five, six, or eight

branches, which do not resemble the menorah of the Temple, which had seven branches; and when it does not resemble the menorah of the Temple, the Torah did not prohibit it. But a menorah

of seven

branches, like the menorah in the Temple,

he may not make, even from other types of metal,

for the same reason: a metal menorah is fit for kindling in the Temple.

Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda says: Even one made of wood a person may not make,

for it was

in the manner in which the kings of the Hasmonean dynasty made

it in the Temple, after they prevailed over the Greeks and purified the Temple, while they were poor and could not make it of gold.

They said to him,

to Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda:

From there

you wish to bring

proof

to deem a wooden menorah fit?

They were iron spits [

without goblets, knobs, and flowers]

and they covered them with tin,

and this was the menorah! You cannot bring proof from this to deem a wooden menorah fit.

And after

they became wealthier, they made them of silver.

They became wealthier again

still more,

and they made them of gold!

In any event, we have heard from this beraita that Rabbi Yosei son of Rabbi Yehuda deems a wooden menorah fit, in accordance with Rav Yosef and not in accordance with Rav Pappa.

Shmuel said in the name of an elder,

one elder:

The height of the menorah

was

eighteen handbreadths. 17 .

And this is the division of the height of the menorah:

A.

The feet

below were the base of the menorah,

and

upon them there was

a flower,

in the form of a design engraved by goldsmiths, and the height of both together was

three handbreadths.

B. Above them, on the middle branch, called the body of the menorah, there were

two handbreadths

of

plain

surface, without any design; thus there were five handbreadths.

C.

And one handbreadth, in which

there was on one side of the menorah

a goblet,

and on its second side

a knob,

and on its third side

a flower. [

And this was one of the goblets, knobs, and flowers that were on the body of the menorah]; thus there were six handbreadths.

D.

And two plain handbreadths

above them; thus there were eight handbreadths.

E.

And one handbreadth

in which there was

a knob, and the two branches

the long ones

emerged from it, one this way

to this side,

and one this way

to the other side.

And the two branches extended

the two branches

and rose

until

opposite the height

of

the menorah [

which is the height of the middle branch, called the body of the menorah].

F.

And one plain handbreadth

above it; thus there were ten handbreadths.

G.

And one handbreadth with a knob, and the two branches

the middle ones

emerged from it, one this way and one this way, and extended and rose

the branches until

opposite the height of the menorah.

H.

And one plain handbreadth

above it; thus there were twelve handbreadths.

I.

And one handbreadth with a knob, and the two branches

the short ones

emerged from it, one this way and one this way, and extended and rose opposite the height of the menorah.

J.

And two plain handbreadths above it,

thus there were fifteen handbreadths.

K.

Three handbreadths remained there, in which

there were

three goblets, a knob, and a flower.

Thus there were eighteen handbreadths. [It follows that on the body of the middle branch there were four goblets, two knobs, and two flowers, besides the flower that was at the base of the menorah and besides the three knobs from which the six branches emerged. The Gemara will explain below the source for this].

And we interpret:

And the goblets

of the menorah—

to what are they comparable? To Alexandrian cups,

which were made in Alexandria and were long and narrow.

To what are the knobs comparable? To Cretan apples,

to the apples of the place called Crete. [And some have the reading: apples of Beirut].

To what are the flowers comparable? To a kind of flowers of the columns.

Like the designs that are drawn on columns, so did the goldsmiths engrave them on the menorah.

And the Gemara concludes:

And there were found

on the menorah:

twenty-two goblets, eleven knobs, and nine flowers!

The goblets render one another indispensable.

For if one goblet is lacking, it renders all of them indispensable, as though no goblets had been made at all. And likewise,

the knobs render one another indispensable, and the flowers render one another indispensable.

And likewise,

the goblets, knobs, and flowers render one another

indispensable.

For if one of them is lacking, it renders all of them indispensable 18 .

The Gemara asks:

Granted, twenty-two goblets

we find [a source] for them, for it is written in the verse: “

And on the menorah there were four goblets

decorated.” And it is explained that there were four goblets on the body of the menorah.

And it is written in another verse: “

Three decorated goblets on one branch, a knob and a flower,

so for the six branches emerging from the menorah.”