Chagigah 15b (טו:) — the Talmud in English

He said to the child:

Recite your verse for me!

He said to him,

the child:

“And when you are devastated

[When devastation and calamity come upon you, Radak]

what will you do, when

[what benefit will you have if]

you dress in scarlet, when you adorn yourself with golden ornaments, when you tear open your eyes with paint”—

your beautifying yourself will be in vain

[Even the ornaments and beauty of the Torah within you will not benefit you, Maharsha] [for] your lovers, those who seek your life, have rejected you” [Those who desire you have now rejected you and seek to take your life from you, Metzudot]. In other words: The repentance would not benefit him.

He brought him into another synagogue, until he had brought him into thirteen synagogues

[he brought him to thirteen study halls],

and all of them recited verses to him in this manner, to his detriment

[in every place they recited verses that condemned Aḥer]!

To the last one

[to the child in the final study hall]

he said to him: Recite your verse for me!

He said to him,

the child:

“But to the wicked God says: What right have you to recite My laws? And so on.”

And

that child

who recited the final verse

was stammering with his tongue

[he was stammering],

so that it sounded as though he said

[and it was heard as though he had said]:

“And to Elisha God says

what right have you to recite My laws.”

Aḥer became angry once more, and the versions of the Gemara differ as to his response:

Some say: Aḥer had a knife in his hand

of Aḥer,

and he cut him

the child [Aḥer had a knife in his hand and cut that child],

and sent him to the thirteen synagogues

[he sent his pieces to the thirteen study halls where he had been].

And some say:

Aḥer did not cut the child; rather,

he said: If only I had a knife in my hand

[if I had a knife in my hand],

I would cut him

[I would cut the child].

When Aḥer died

[when Aḥer died],

they said

in Heaven, in the heavenly court:

“We shall neither judge him nor shall he enter the World-to-Come

[we shall not judge him in Gehinnom, but he shall not enter the World-to-Come either]!”

The reason was:

“We shall not judge him”: Because he occupied himself with Torah

[since he occupied himself with Torah].

And

even

“he shall not enter the World-to-Come”: Because he sinned.

Rabbi Meir said: It is preferable that he be judged and then enter the World-to-Come

[it is preferable that he be judged and afterward enter the World-to-Come].

And Rabbi Meir said of himself:

“When will I die, so that smoke may rise from Aḥer’s grave”

of Aḥer!

That is: The Holy One, blessed be He, should judge him with blazing fire that produces smoke, so that his sins would be atoned for and he would merit the World-to-Come [Rabbeinu Hananel].

When Rabbi Meir died,

once Rabbi Meir was approaching death, he prayed for this, and the Holy One, blessed be He, accepted his prayer. And when Rabbi Meir died [Rabbeinu Hananel],

smoke rose from Aḥer’s grave

[smoke began to rise from Aḥer’s grave], and this was a sign that he had been admitted to Gehinnom.

Rabbi Yoḥanan

wondered

and said

about Rabbi Meir’s actions: Is it really so that

causing one’s teacher to be burned in fire is a great feat

[is it a great thing for a student to cause his teacher to be punished in Gehinnom]?!

“There was one among us who went astray, and we cannot save him

[one who had sinned was among us, and we cannot save him]?!

If I take him by the hand—

who will pull him away from me

[literally: from me]!

If I seize him and remove him from Gehinnom, who will take him from my hand?!

Rabbi Yoḥanan

said:

“When will I die, so that I can extinguish the smoke from his grave

, causing him to be removed from Gehinnom.”

When Rabbi Yoḥanan died, the smoke ceased from Aḥer’s grave

[and indeed, when Rabbi Yoḥanan died, the smoke stopped rising from Aḥer’s grave].

A certain eulogizer delivered a eulogy for

Rabbi Yoḥanan,

and said

:

“Even the guardian of the entrance

[the guardian of Gehinnom]

could not stand before you—

our teacher,

when you came to remove Aḥer from Gehinnom.

Aḥer’s daughter came before Rabbi.

She said to him

Rabbi:

“Rabbi, support me!”

He said to her,

Rabbi:

“Whose daughter are you?”

She said to him: “I am Aḥer’s daughter.”

He said to her,

Rabbi: Is it possible that

there is still a descendant

of Aḥer

in the world?!

But it is written: “The light of the wicked shall also be extinguished;

there shall be no offspring for him, and no descendant among his people, and no survivor in his dwellings”?!

he shall have neither heir nor grandson among his people, and no survivor in his dwellings”?

She said to him: “Rabbi! Remember his Torah

of my father

and do not remember his deeds.”

Immediately fire descended

[because the Torah is called “a law of fire”],

and scorched Rabbi’s bench,

as though it said: Remember his Torah [Maharsha].

Rabbi wept and said: If this is so for those who disgrace it, how much more so for those who praise it!

And we challenge this:

But Rabbi Meir—

how could he learn Torah from Aḥer’s mouth

[how could he learn Torah from Aḥer’s mouth after he had turned to evil ways]?!

But Rabba bar bar Ḥana said in the name of Rabbi Yoḥanan:

What is the meaning of that which is written: “For the lips of the priest should keep knowledge, and they should seek Torah from his mouth, for he is an angel

of

the Lord of Hosts”:

If the teacher is comparable to an angel of the Lord of Hosts,

only then

should they seek Torah from his mouth; but if not, they should not seek Torah from his mouth.

And since that is so, how did Rabbi Meir learn from Aḥer’s mouth?!

Said

he answered:

Reish Lakish: Rabbi Meir found a verse and expounded it

[he found a verse and expounded it to mean that one may learn from the wicked].

As it is written:

“Incline your ear and hear the words of the wise

and apply your heart to My understanding.”

“To their understanding

of the wise

it does not say

, because we are dealing with the wicked [Rashi],

but rather, “to My understanding

, of the Holy One, blessed be He.

You learn from this: One may even learn from the wicked, provided that one does not apply one’s heart to his evil opinions.

Rav Ḥanina said: From here

it can be learned that it is permitted to learn from the wicked, as it is written:

“Hear, daughter, and see, and incline your ear, and forget your people and your father’s house

and so on.”

Incline your ear to hear their Torah, but forget their deeds and do not learn them.

And we ask: Ultimately,

the verses contradict one another

: One verse teaches us that one may not learn from the wicked, while other verses teach us that there is no prohibition against doing so?!

And we answer:

It is not difficult,

because:

This—

that the verses permit learning from the wicked—

applies to

a student who is a

great

person and knows to take care not to learn from his deeds.

That—

that Scripture prohibits learning Torah from one who is not comparable to an angel of the Lord of Hosts—

applies to

a

minor student.

When Rav Dimi came

from Eretz Yisrael to Babylonia,

he said: In the West

[in Eretz Yisrael]

they say: Rabbi Meir,

who learned from Aḥer, is like one who

found dates: He ate the fruit and threw the pit outside

[he found dates, ate the edible outer fruit, and threw the pit outside].

Rava expounded: What is the meaning of that which is written: “I went down to the garden of nuts, to see the green plants of the valley,” and so on?

Why are Torah scholars compared to a nut?

To tell you: Just as this nut, although it is soiled with mud and excrement

on the outside, on its shell,

what is inside it is not repulsive,

so too, although a Torah scholar has gone astray, his Torah is not repulsive.

Rabba bar Sheila found Elijah

[Rabba bar Sheila found Elijah the prophet],

and said to him

Rabba to Elijah:

“What is the Holy One, blessed be He, doing

[what is the Holy One, blessed be He doing]?”

He said to him

Elijah:

“He is saying

the Holy One, blessed be He,

halakhic teachings from the mouths of all the Sages, but He does not say them from the mouth of Rabbi Meir

[He says words of Torah from the mouths of all the Sages, but not from the mouth of Rabbi Meir].

He said to him

Rabba to Elijah:

“Why?”

Elijah said to Rabba:

“Because he learns halakhic teachings from the mouth of Aḥer

[because he learned from Aḥer’s mouth] after he had turned to evil ways.

He said to him

Rabba to Elijah: And

why

does the Holy One, blessed be He, not say teachings in his name?! After all,

Rabbi Meir found a pomegranate, ate its interior, and threw away its peel.

He said to him

Elijah to Rabba: The Holy One, blessed be He, has heeded your words, and

now

[at this moment]

the Holy One, blessed be He, is saying

:

“My son Meir says as follows:

“When a person suffers

[when punishment comes upon him for his sin],

what expression does the Divine Presence use

[in what language does it lament over him]:

‘My head is pained, my arm is pained,”

like a person who, when exhausted and weary, says: “My head is heavy upon me, and my arm is heavy upon me” [Rashi, Sanhedrin]. And if this is so, the Holy One, blessed be He, suffers over the blood of the wicked that is spilled; how much more so over the blood of the righteous that is spilled.

if the Holy One, blessed be He, suffers over the blood of the wicked that is shed, all the more so over the blood of the righteous that is shed.

Samuel found Rav Yehuda hanging from the door’s crossbar and weeping

[he found him hanging himself from the door’s bolt and crying].

He said to him

Samuel to Rav Yehuda:

“Shinena! Why are you crying

[why are you crying]?”

He said to him

Rav Yehuda to Samuel:

“Is what is written about the Sages really a minor matter

[is what is said about the Sages a small matter]:

‘Where is the counter? Where is the weigher? Where is the counter of the towers’?”

That is: Even sages about whom great things were said are nevertheless punished when they sin:

As it is said about them:

“Where is the counter”:

They counted all the letters of the Torah.

“Where is the weigher”:

They weighed the kal va-chomer arguments of the Torah,

expounding the lenient matter from the stringent one and the stringent matter from the lenient one according to the balance of the kal va-chomer.

“Where is the counter of the towers”:

They reviewed three hundred halakhot concerning a tower hovering in the air.

And Rabbi Ami said: Three hundred questions

[three hundred questions]

were asked by Doeg and Ahitophel concerning a tower hovering in the air.

And

even so,

we learned: Three kings

[Jeroboam, Ahab, and Manasseh]

and four commoners

[Balaam, Doeg, Ahitophel, and Gehazi]

have no share in the World-to-Come.

And since that is so:

“As for us”—

what will become of us

[what will become of us], if such great sages reached this state, who knows where we, who are lesser than they, will end up?!

He said to him

Samuel to Rav Yehuda:

“Shinena!”

Do not be concerned about what happened with Doeg and Ahitophel, because

there was impurity in their hearts,

they had been wicked all their lives.

The Gemara asks:

“As for Aḥer, what

was the impurity in his heart that led him to this state, so that his Torah did not protect him?”

And we explain:

“Greek song never ceased from his mouth

[it never ceased from his mouth], although he should have stopped singing because of the destruction of the Temple, as it is written: ‘They shall not drink wine with song.’”

They said about Aḥer: When he would rise from the study hall

before he turned to evil ways,

many books of heretics would fall from his lap.

Nimos the Weaver asked Rabbi Meir:

Was it true that

“all wool that enters the vat comes out”

[does all wool that descends into the vat for dyeing emerge from it dyed]? In other words: Does the Torah of all those who study before the Sages rise up to protect them from sin?

He said to him

Rabbi Meir to Nimos:

“Anyone that was clean beside its mother comes out

[any wool that was clean when it was shorn has its dye take well], but

anything that was not clean beside its mother does not come out.”

That is: Anyone whose fear of sin precedes his wisdom benefits from it in this manner.

We learned in a beraita:

Rabbi Akiva ascended in peace and descended in peace:

And concerning him the verse says: “Draw me, after You let us run”

“The king brought me into his chambers,” for he entered in peace into the chambers of the supernal palaces [Maharsha].

And the ministering angels also sought to push Rabbi Akiva

as they did his companions, because it is not proper to use the holy Names [Maharsha].

The Holy One, blessed be He, said to them

the ministering angels:

“Leave this elder alone, for he is worthy to use My honor”

[the honor of the Name, Maharsha].