Berakhot 50b (נ:) — the Talmud in English

And we said this

only that those who separated from other groups can join together for zimmun,

but

only in a case

where the latter did not precede

the groups from which they had separated

and conduct zimmun for them in their place,

as we found above (45b), that they call to them and they join the zimmun by answering from their places.

But

if they had already called to them and

conducted zimmun for them in their place,

even though they had not yet recited Birkat HaMazon,

the

obligation

of zimmun has departed from them,

and they cannot join together for zimmun .

Rava said: From where do I say this

that joining them together does not restore their original obligation [even though it was revoked when they joined their respective groups]?

As we learned

[Kelim 18:9]:

A

ritually impure

bed whose half was stolen, whose half was lost, or which brothers or partners divided, is pure,

because it is no longer considered a “vessel” that can contract ritual impurity. If they repaired it and

restored it

to its former state,

it can contract ritual impurity from that point onward.

Rava infers:

From that point onward it can

[contract ritual impurity], but

retroactively

[its former impurity]

does not

return to it.

Apparently, once they divided it, its impurity departed from it,

and it does not return to it.

Here too,

with regard to individuals who separated from their groups joining together for zimmun:

once they conducted zimmun for them, the zimmun departed from them,

and those who separated cannot join together again for zimmun.

We learned in the Mishna:

Two groups

that were eating in one house: When some of them can see one another, they join together for zimmun. But if not, this group conducts zimmun for itself and that group conducts zimmun for itself.

It was taught: If there is a servant between them,

who serves both of them,

the servant joins them,

even though they cannot see one another at all.

We learned in the Mishna:

One does not recite a blessing over wine

until he adds water to it; this is the statement of Rabbi Eliezer. But the Sages say: One recites a blessing.

The Sages taught: Wine before one adds water to it

is in its undiluted strength and is not fit for drinking, and therefore it does not possess the status of wine, and therefore

one does not recite over it “Who creates the fruit of the vine,” but rather “Who creates the fruit of the tree,”

just as he initially recited over it when it was still in its grapes . And since it lacks the status of wine, it is considered like other fruit juices,

and one may use it for washing the hands.

Once one adds water to it,

it is considered wine, and

one recites over it “Who creates the fruit of the vine,” but one may not use it for washing the hands,

because one washes the hands only with water.

This is the statement of Rabbi Eliezer. But the Sages say: In either case

[whether it is undiluted wine or diluted wine], it is considered “wine,” and therefore

one recites over it “Who creates the fruit of the vine,”

and one may not use it for washing the hands.

The Gemara discusses the implication of this beraita:

In accordance with whose opinion is that which Shmuel said, “A person may use bread for all his needs,”

permitting one to use food for any purpose, even for something other than eating —

in accordance with whose opinion?

In accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer,

who permitted in the beraita using undiluted wine to wash the hands and was not concerned about “destroying food.”

Rabbi Yosei, son of Rabbi Ḥanina, said: The Sages concede to Rabbi Eliezer with regard to the cup of blessing

—over which one recites kiddush or Birkat HaMazon —

that one does not recite over it

Birkat HaMazon or kiddush

until one adds water to it. What is the reason?

Rav Oshaya said:

Since one performs a mitzva with it,

we require the choicest mitzva.

And

the Gemara raises an objection to

the Sages,

who said in the beraita that one also recites “Who creates the fruit of the vine” over undiluted wine:

For what is it fit?

If it is not fit for drinking, it does not possess a superior status that would cause its blessing to change from “Who creates the fruit of the tree” to “Who creates the fruit of the vine.” The Gemara explains:

Rabbi Zeira said:

Undiluted wine

is fit

for koreiti—a beverage made of a mixture of wine, honey, and pepper, without water.

a beverage made from a mixture of wine, honey, and pepper, without water.

The Sages taught: Four matters were said with regard to bread. 1. One may not place raw meat on bread,

lest it become repulsive because of it. 2.

And one may not carry a full cup

[of wine]

over bread,

lest it spill onto the bread, causing the bread to be dishonored. 3.

And one may not throw bread

through the air, even in a manner in which there is no concern that it will fall and become repulsive, because this is a disrespectful practice . 4.

And one may not support a bowl

filled with cooked food—so that it will not spill—

on bread,

because there is concern that the food will spill onto it and make it repulsive.

Ameimar, Mar Zutra, and Rav Ashi were wrapping bread together. Dates and pomegranates were brought before them. Mar Zutra took and threw

the food

before Rav Ashi, a portion of cooked meat

.

He said to him

Rav Ashi: Surely

does the Master not accept that which was taught: “One may not throw food”?

Mar Zutra answered him:

That

beraita that prohibits throwing food

was taught with regard to bread,

but it is permitted to throw other foods.

Rav Ashi said to him:

But was it not taught: “Just as one may not throw bread, so too one may not throw food”?

He said to him,

Mar Zutra:

But was it not taught

otherwise:

“Although one may not throw bread, one may throw food”?

Rather,

necessarily,

it is not difficult,

because

this

beraita, which says that one may not throw food, deals

with something that becomes repulsive,

such as figs and berries, which become crushed when they fall , whereas

this

beraita, which says that one may throw food, deals

with something that does not become repulsive,

such as pomegranates and nuts . But it is forbidden to throw bread because of the dishonor caused to it, even if it does not become repulsive.

The Sages taught: They pour -

they cause to flow -

wine through pipes before a bridegroom and before a bride,

as a good sign that their tranquility should endure,

and they throw before them roasted grains -

roasted kernels of wheat -

and nuts,

and this practice is performed only

during the summer

when there is no concern that the food will become repulsive when it falls to the ground,

but not during the rainy season

when there is concern that it will become repulsive in the mud.

But they do not

throw before them

loaves -

types of baked goods -

neither during the summer nor during the rainy season,

because they become repulsive when they fall even during the summer.

Rav Yehuda said: If one forgot and put food into his mouth without a blessing, he moves it to one side

in his mouth,

and recites the blessing.

We find three formulations in the beraitot that cite this law:

It was taught in one beraita: “He swallows it”

without a blessing;

and it was taught in another: “He spits it out”

and recites a blessing over it and then eats it again;

and it was taught in another: “He moves it aside”

to the side of his mouth and recites a blessing.

The Gemara explains:

It is not difficult

to reconcile the contradiction between the three formulations, because

that which was taught in the beraita, “He swallows it”

without a blessing, refers

to liquids,

since if he spits them out they will become repulsive, and if he moves them to the side of his mouth he will not be able to recite a blessing; therefore, it is permitted to swallow them without a blessing .

And that which was taught in the beraita, “He spits it out”

and recites a blessing and then eats it, refers

to something that does not become repulsive,

and he can return and eat it after spitting it out.

And that which was taught in the other beraita, “He moves it aside”

to the side of his mouth and recites a blessing, refers to

something that becomes repulsive

when he spits it out. Since he will not be able to eat it again, he moves it to one side, but he may not swallow it without a blessing.