Bava Batra 163b — the Talmud in English

It is well according to Rav Kahana, who transmits it in the name of Shmuel,

that it was Shmuel who stated the ruling that a document in which it and its witnesses are upon erased writing is valid,

properly.

For one can say that Rav disagrees with this, and it is not difficult for him.

But according to Rav Taviyomi, who transmits it in the name of Rav

the ruling that it and its witnesses upon erased writing is valid,

what is there to say!?

And the Gemara answers:

He holds

Rav:

in any such case,

every document in which it and its witnesses are written upon erased writing and which also contains an authentication clause,

we do not validate it from the authentication clause in it,

we do not rely upon the authentication clause,

but from the witnesses in it.

It must be validated through recognition of the handwriting of the witnesses signed upon the erased writing. And the authentication clause is effective only for a document written upon blank paper.

But in Rav’s ruling, when he distanced the witnesses from the authentication clause, although he fills that place with scribbling, in any event the actual writing of the document and the witnesses are not upon erased paper but upon blank paper; therefore the authentication clause is effective there. And there is no concern lest he cut off the entire document and use only the part filled with scribbling after erasing it, since in that case we do not rely upon the authentication clause.

And Rabbi Yohanan said: They taught only

that if he distanced it by only one line it is valid,

but

when the distance is

between the witnesses and the writing. But between the witnesses and the authentication clause, even if

he distanced it by only

one line, it is invalid.

And the Gemara discusses:

What is different between the witnesses and the authentication clause,

that it is invalid even with one line? And the Gemara answers:

Perhaps he cuts off the upper part.

Because we are concerned lest he cut off the entire document above up to the empty line,

and write it and its witnesses on one line.

He will write a new document on that line, and also forge the signatures of witnesses on that line, and we will rely upon those signatures, since an authentication clause follows them. And the fact that the document and the witnesses are on the same line does not invalidate it, because

he holds

Rabbi Yohanan:

a document in which it and its witnesses

both are written

on one line is valid.

And the Gemara objects:

If so, between the witnesses and the writing also

we should invalidate it even with one line, because

perhaps

he cuts off the upper part,

lest he cut the entire document up to that empty line,

and write whatever he wishes,

and write new content there,

and the witnesses sign.

But the witnesses below are signed and validate what is written above!

And the Gemara answers:

He holds,

Rabbi Yohanan:

a document that comes on one line

that has only one line

and its witnesses on another line

below it

is invalid.

Therefore there is no concern lest he write new content on that empty line.

And the Gemara objects:

And let us be concerned lest he write it and its witnesses on one line,

lest he cut off the entire document and insert into that empty line between the document and the witnesses new content and forged witnesses. For if the document and the witnesses are on the same line, we said that it is valid. And when he comes to collect with this document, he will validate the signatures of the genuine witnesses below.

And he said,

he will say: For this reason I added the witnesses below, although I already had witnesses on the upper line, because

I acted only to increase the witnesses!

I wished to increase the number of witnesses in order to publicize the matter more.

And the Gemara answers:

He holds

Rabbi Yohanan, that

in any such case,

in a case where there are both witnesses on one line with the document and witnesses on the line below,

we do not validate it from the witnesses below, but from the witnesses above

who are signed on the same line as the document.

The essential matter: Rav said: A document in which it and its witnesses are upon erased writing is valid.